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Display Name Post: Complexes twice a week        (Topic#37091)
Dan John
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Total Posts: 12292
01-30-20 10:13 AM - Post#893363    



I'm doing a favor for a friend who wants to lose some weight. We are meeting an additional two times a week to do a half hour of "rucking," which is wearing a weight vest (I think mine is 60 pounds) and walking with two pound heavy hands in each hand, followed by complexes.

We started off with just the bar for three sets of five. Then, we slowly added load to the last set, the second to last set, then all three sets. Then, we moved to three sets of eight. It's remarkable what something this simple can do.

The workouts take maybe 40 minutes with the half hour walk...give or take..and the "I go/you go" on the complexes goes really fast.

Moving from fives to eights is not THREE more reps , it's 18. Most of the complexes have two different squats so we are looking at 16 squats (or more) per round.

So:
Monday:
Ruck and Complex
Epic Gym workout (A/B)

Tuesday:
Buns and Guns

Wednesday:
Epic Gym workout (A/B)

Thursday:
Tonic Easy Day

Friday:
Rucking and Complex
Epic Gym workout (A/B)

On paper, this is two double sessions a week. I'm starting to think that this has some real value. I'm writing some articles for Pat Flynn's Fast15 and I think that JUST the complexes in a short morning bout to finish a fast might be the smartest thing I could have done as an athlete.

Yesterday, if you saw my Instagram (coachdanjohn), I taught some of the PTs at the gym the snatch so they can do Complex C. I would like to see these make a "come back."

https://www.t-nation.com/training/rebuild-your self-with-complexes

https://danjohn.net/pdfs/complex.pdf

More as this develops.

You can all go back to talking about other people's programs now on this forum.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
iPood
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Total Posts: 2360
Re: Complexes twice a week
01-30-20 10:19 AM - Post#893364    



  • Dan John Said:
You can all go back to talking about other people's programs now on this forum.



Sorry, you're right.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin


 
vegpedlr
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Total Posts: 1179
01-30-20 10:42 AM - Post#893365    



Do you have links to the workout details? I recall the name Buns n Guns, but don't remember what it was. And what is the Epic Gym A/B? Does it require a special epic orchestral score?

I did something similar one summer, subbing a day's ES with 5x5x5. That was, 5x5 of row, clean, press, FSQ, and push up. A short carry to the rower, row a couple of minutes. It was "fun", and "work" all at once.

I'd like to see how the complexes develop. I remember a thread here some time back where complexes came again and again as magic.

You mentioned on the podcast that except for the ABC, you don't like KB complexes. Why? They seem like a natural.
 
BChase
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Total Posts: 854
01-30-20 10:44 AM - Post#893366    



Looks good, Dan. I prefer complexes with kettlebells. Makes it easier to transition from one exercise to the next. Or, do them as a chain sequentially which really fatigues, but I believe provides with more quality reps.

Another tweak I've done is if you are doing a complex for time. Double swing x 20 seconds, Double clean x 20, Squat x 20, Double Snatch x 20 and Military Press x 20,

100 seconds of work, 100 seconds rest. 5 rounds. Instead of doing it traditionally, Take the amount of time to finish the program, in this case, 5 rounds of 100 seconds + 4 rounds of rest = 900 seconds or 15 minutes.

There are 25 total exercises in the workout. 5 exercises x 5 rounds. Take 900 seconds / 25 = 36 seconds. You start a new exercise every 36 seconds so you get 16 seconds rest between.

Kind of like rest/pause for complexes and different exercises.

What I found was, my reps are significantly higher quality, less grip fatigue, AND most importantly, I finish the workout in UNDER 15 minutes. 14:44 as a matter of fact.

 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 12292
01-30-20 11:10 AM - Post#893370    



Yes, I, underline I, don't like single KB complexes. I like stews and soups, too. It's just my thing.

Buns and Guns is all kinds of glute work and then we do some fun arm work. Changes weekly.

My personal trainer's gym is Epic Fitness. I have two workouts, A and B, that change every 12 workouts. Don't worry about it: it's fundamental stuff that I sometimes share on my instagram. Nothing crazy.

Bchase, that's pretty good.

Wow...no SS talk for almost a minute on this forum.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
vegpedlr
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Total Posts: 1179
01-30-20 11:59 AM - Post#893371    



You don't like soups and stews?! Blasphemy . . . though I get it, probably a texture thing.

OK, got it, more a template than a specific plan. Will stay tuned.

No answer about the music though. I imagine . . <cues John Williams score>

NOW, I LIFT!
 
aussieluke
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Total Posts: 5439
01-30-20 12:16 PM - Post#893374    



As much as I’d like to continue bitching about other forums and programs here, and I would add that this place is a great place to do that, I want to say that this forum, and threads such as this one, really highlight the difference and probably the reason we all continue to come here year after year and why you don’t see similar posts slagging this place off on other sites.

I’ve gained so many ideas and tools here over the decade I’ve been posting and following - yet not once has anyone ever said “you should be doing X” instead, or you should buy X and come back when you’ve done Y and Z and not before...

It’s cool that you’re doing complexes again and some other stuff that doesn’t really matter what it is because I’m not you and we’re all different. It’s cool that you don’t like single kb complexes - I do, more than both double kettlebell complexes and barbell complexes - and it’s cool that no one is going to tell me I should be doing barbell complexes instead or i must buy your special secret barbell complex book. But I’ve always used you complexes PDF as a useful guide to figuring out my own kb complexes...

Anyway the last few weeks I’ve been doing machines or bodyweight strength work 2-3 days a week and this single kb complex/chain 2-3 times a week on other days, or sometimes later the same day:

Left arm
10 swings
5 snatch
5 C&P
Repeat with right arm then rest a couple of minutes.

Was using a 20 but recently found it fun to do it with a 16 then a 20 then a 24, then repeat for 6 total rounds.

Works well for me because it flows and there’s only one hand switch and at no point do I need to stop or put the bell down or any sort of moving the bell to a different starting position...

And also there’s no squats ‘cause I’m already doing those elsewhere and it can literally be done anywhere there is room to stand (no getups)
Log


 
jold
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Total Posts: 59
01-30-20 12:24 PM - Post#893375    



Other people have programs?!?
 
Jordan D
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Total Posts: 771
01-30-20 12:38 PM - Post#893377    



This forum is universally polite, friendly, curious, and deeply informative - what our school systems aspire to, but rarely achieve. Thank you for that.

Complexes, however, are neither polite nor friendly. Ugh. Perhaps that's why they're so good for burning fat.

Or maybe that just means that I need to do more complexes. Double ugh.
 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 12292
01-30-20 12:55 PM - Post#893378    



Yeah, that single KB combo thing.

I just deleted a bunch of explanation. I decided that I just don't like them and that will have to do.

I'm actually fine with that. I always have been. My best friends in college were nerd/geeks who taught me about the Lord of the Rings, D and D, and computers. I was a discus thrower and we never worried about if I HAD to read Tolkien's elf stuff to hang out.

It comes down to this: with my theology background, the worst thing you can generally say is "either/or." The dipshit internet seems now to demand "either/or" the lowest form of thinking.

America: love it or leave it.
My way or the highway.
S/S is better than 5/3/1 (Well...)

I'm a "both/and" guy overall. It's like that idiotic lunge discussion that comes up at the end of my talks: I don't like them at all BUT you can certainly do them. If someone would take the time to show me an intelligent progression/correction spectrum, I might like reconsider (I won't. I just wanted to give some people a moment of hope before I crush their dreams.)

Getting back to the point, I am working on some programs for "some of my people" that are almost daily double sessions of a short bout of complexes after the fast and then a longer normal session later in the day (whenever).

I've kinda realized that doing complexes in a session can really ping on the other things. So, I think pulling them out and putting them here or there might be a double win.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
BrianBinVA
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Total Posts: 5140
Complexes twice a week
01-30-20 01:38 PM - Post#893380    



Dan, you just need to get yourself associated with one and only one program. Till the next one and only one that is. All this both/and stuff is your undoing!

And to paraphrase for the record, if all you did was complexes, you could be awesome.




Edited by BrianBinVA on 01-30-20 01:40 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Brian Hassler
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Total Posts: 616
Complexes twice a week
01-30-20 05:19 PM - Post#893389    



  • Dan John Said:
(SNIP) I like stews and soups, too. It's just my thing.

(SNIP)

Wow...no SS talk for almost a minute on this forum.



SS is Soups and Stews, right? And you like them but we shouldn't talk about them? "The first rule of Soups and Stews is that you don't talk about Soups and Stews."

That actually makes sense, as it's both inefficient and rude to eat and talk at the same time.


Edited by Brian Hassler on 01-30-20 05:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Old Miler
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Total Posts: 1744
Re: Complexes twice a week
01-30-20 05:28 PM - Post#893390    



  • Dan John Said:


I printed out that PDF 5 years ago, put it in a poly cover and taped it to my shed wall. As a result, I have done Complex A hundreds of times, and never tried the others. (Or it may be because I don't know what a Clean Pull, or Hang Snatch are, nor trust myself to do them right).

They tend to be part of the warmup. A bit of light movement with no weight, then just once through with 20-30kg, before I do my Easy Strength.

Dan, are there reasons why you would pick one of those complexes over another, for particular goals? I'm guessing that for fat loss, someting with a clean or a snatch in it would rev you up and make you sweat and breathe a bit more....


Edited by Old Miler on 01-30-20 05:30 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 12292
01-30-20 05:38 PM - Post#893393    



Old miler, that's a good question. There are a number of issues:

One: the bar has to pass over the head. You want to keep this at a minimum. So...that takes practice and planning. I remember standing with Coach Barberio trying to figure out F. We wanted three squats in one of them but spent a LOOOOOONG time figuring out how to do it without having to do the bouncing bar Olympics.

Two: I guess you could avoid the O lifts, sure. Lacie put together some O lift complexes to prep for her meet...you can go the opposite direction. Avoiding some cleans might be tough.

Three: be sure to read the article. Complexes have a WTF?? aspect to them that is just weird. You can stronger doing them...and leaner. It's probably the amount of time you are under load, but it's cool.

Four: yes, it makes you breath hard but in a brave, macho way. Nothing more embarrassing to a true lifter than to breath hard doing something like running or treadmill.

Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Gunny72
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Total Posts: 410
Complexes twice a week
01-30-20 06:21 PM - Post#893399    



Complexes are very under rated.

I had never heard of them until I read a Dan John article about them on T-Nation.

I actually started a thread on Complexes on this forum last year from memory.

In Nov-Dec, 2018, for 6 weeks, all I did was Hillsprints twice a week & Complexes 2/3 a week.

I felt unbelievably strong, healthy & fit. I was actually losing weight during the Festive season, not putting on weight, which was a first for me !

It was so successful.....that I actualy stopped doing them.

My favourite Complex routine was

Deadlifts (with bar not touching ground)
Rows
Military Press
Back Squats
Good mornings


I would try & do 3 sets of 8-5-3 & would increase weight each time.

I think I got up to 55kg from memory for 3 reps. Of coarse, the weight is dictated by your Military press reps.

Andrew Gunn

Edited by Gunny72 on 01-30-20 06:31 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Tim Clark
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Total Posts: 20
Re: Complexes twice a week
01-30-20 06:57 PM - Post#893400    



Dan thank you for bringing up complexes. I ment to explore them after doing mass made simple last year but never did and I like the idea of using them as a separate fast breaker.
Do you recommend sticking with one complex for a few weeks or using a variety of complexes across the week?
 
vegpedlr
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Total Posts: 1179
01-30-20 07:27 PM - Post#893402    



Last summer I did the SW complex version (C+P+FSQ) a couple times a week as maintenance. Different weights and rep ranges, 8-6-4, 3x8, 3x6 etc. I liked it, it worked, until stopped doing it never got going on the DMPM as a replacement.

Isn't the DMPM in essence a complex?
 
iPood
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Total Posts: 2360
01-31-20 12:40 AM - Post#893415    



  • vegpedlr Said:
Last summer I did the SW complex version (C+P+FSQ) a couple times a week as maintenance. Different weights and rep ranges, 8-6-4, 3x8, 3x6 etc. I liked it, it worked, until stopped doing it never got going on the DMPM as a replacement.

Isn't the DMPM in essence a complex?



I've always done it as a slow circuit.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 12292
01-31-20 08:53 AM - Post#893430    



I imagine you could do practically any kind of variation, but this is what Mike and I are doing.

Complex A
Day One
3 x 5 light weight
Day Two
3 x 5 last set a little heavier
Day Three
3 x 5 last two sets a little heavier
Day four
3 x 5 all three sets a little heavier
Day Five
3 x 8 light weight (totally "depends")
Day Six
3 x 8 last set a little heavier
Day Seven
3 x 8 last two sets a little heavier
Day Eight
3 x 8 all three sets a little heavier
Day Nine
3 x 3...
Day Ten
3 x 3...last set heavier
Day Eleven
3 x 3 ...last two
Day Twelve
3 x 3...all three

Start again with Complex B or C
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
12bernd
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Total Posts: 176
01-31-20 09:22 AM - Post#893436    



Looks interesting. How hard are the lifting sessions afterwards? I have tried your Complexes a couple of time as a warm up but never found a happy medium between "too light" and "too tired afterwards".
 
BrianBinVA
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Total Posts: 5140
01-31-20 09:37 AM - Post#893439    



This thread has inspired me to take some time (I'm thinking 2-6 months, depending) with complexes. Thanks Dan.


 
Heck
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Total Posts: 62
01-31-20 10:56 AM - Post#893447    



I'm convinced that Complex A is the secret sauce in MMS, for me at least. But it's incredibly taxing--and the reason I split the workouts into two days when I do that program once a year. Presses and other upper body work one day, complexes and squats on day 2, then rest.

That said, I usually do it with a burly sandbag don't add weight to it. Just hit the reps, then squat, then eat and/or cry.

Currently doing high-rep squats twice a week, once as belt squats, the other as heavy goblets. I bet the complex and belt squats would make for a great combo. Hmmm...
 
vegpedlr
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Total Posts: 1179
01-31-20 12:10 PM - Post#893451    



Any way to combine complexes with ES? Or does that defeat the purpose of both?
 
iPood
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Total Posts: 2360
01-31-20 01:52 PM - Post#893453    



  • vegpedlr Said:
Any way to combine complexes with ES? Or does that defeat the purpose of both?



In a way, you can do the ABC in an ES fashion: choose a pair of KBs that allows you to complete five rounds somewhat easy-ish. And keep doing it, session after session, until fifteen rounds means you barely break a sweat (or your heart rate doesn't increase over X bpms).

Then bump the load and start all over again.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."

Dan Martin


 
BrianBinVA
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Total Posts: 5140
Complexes twice a week
01-31-20 03:42 PM - Post#893456    



Since this thread has inspired me to take a few months to do complexes, and since we are talking of armor building, I was doing some reading and came across an article I had not seen before, here: https://danjohn.net/2017/02/changing-live s-with-one-piece-of-equip ment/

Is it true that the goal (as stated in the link) is *30 rounds in five minutes* with 24k KBs?

We find it “best” to pull the bells down each set and take a moment to shake off each round. The goal is 30 total rounds in five minutes with 24 Kilo bells in each hand. Now, that is only six a minute, but you won’t have much time to dilly dally between reps here.

That is, like, 36 reps per minute (12 cleans, 6 presses, 18 squats), and I don't see how you would ever set the bells down during that five minutes, never mind after every set. More morbid curiosity than anything, as I don't think I'll be taking that on!




Edited by BrianBinVA on 01-31-20 03:44 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Old Miler
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Total Posts: 1744
01-31-20 03:58 PM - Post#893458    



  • Dan John Said:
Nothing more embarrassing to a true lifter than to breath hard doing something like running or treadmill.




Yes, and there's nothing more amusing to a true distance runner than watching the lifters try to run! (I'm sure it's mutual...)

Ever got drafted for a 4x400 leg when your team was desperate?

 
Dan John
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Total Posts: 12292
01-31-20 04:14 PM - Post#893464    



Twice. In the 9th Grade, I lead off with a 58. In Junior College, 400 meters a 54.

Both sucked. The difference was I was 100 pounds larger.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 12292
01-31-20 04:16 PM - Post#893465    



12brd,

Honestly, I can't explain it better than how I opened this discussion:

I'm doing a favor for a friend who wants to lose some weight. We are meeting an additional two times a week to do a half hour of "rucking," which is wearing a weight vest (I think mine is 60 pounds) and walking with two pound heavy hands in each hand, followed by complexes.

We started off with just the bar for three sets of five. Then, we slowly added load to the last set, the second to last set, then all three sets. Then, we moved to three sets of eight. It's remarkable what something this simple can do.

The workouts take maybe 40 minutes with the half hour walk...give or take..and the "I go/you go" on the complexes goes really fast.

Moving from fives to eights is not THREE more reps , it's 18. Most of the complexes have two different squats so we are looking at 16 squats (or more) per round.

So:
Monday:
Ruck and Complex
Epic Gym workout (A/B)

Tuesday:
Buns and Guns

Wednesday:
Epic Gym workout (A/B)

Thursday:
Tonic Easy Day

Friday:
Rucking and Complex
Epic Gym workout (A/B)

On paper, this is two double sessions a week. I'm starting to think that this has some real value. I'm writing some articles for Pat Flynn's Fast15 and I think that JUST the complexes in a short morning bout to finish a fast might be the smartest thing I could have done as an athlete.

Yesterday, if you saw my Instagram (coachdanjohn), I taught some of the PTs at the gym the snatch so they can do Complex C. I would like to see these make a "come back."

https://www.t-nation.com/training/rebuild-your self-with-complexes

https://danjohn.net/pdfs/complex.pdf

More as this develops.

You can all go back to talking about other people's programs now on this forum.

...and all the discussion here.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 12292
01-31-20 04:22 PM - Post#893468    



Veggie:
"
Any way to combine complexes with ES? Or does that defeat the purpose of both? "

This is a great idea. I don't have experience with it. I think I am talking about this with one of my elite programs:

This is a rough draft. I have some better ideas now:

Fast Fifteen for Athletes

People often ask me that question that gets me all “Twilight Zoned:” if I could change anything about my career(s), what would I change? I hate the question as, first, I don’t believe in time travel and, two, if I did change something, everything I cherish might vanish.

But…if I could…I would have embraced fasting much sooner in my career. Listen: I wasn’t wrong about having my athletes focus on a good breakfast, snacks and lunch before training. Most of my career, we trained in the mid-afternoon. Generally, yes, it was school, but it was also prime-time for weather and this is the best time to throw.

So, fasting could have been done, but we have better tools now.

I think the 15-hour fast is just about perfect. The 15-minute transition workout from fasting to feasting is something that makes me think.

A lot.

For athletes, I think the answer is simple: the post-fast workout should be Olympic complexes. It doesn’t have to be long or hard, just get the reps in. Included in this is a full review of complexes, but for now let’s just look at the Fast-15 “transition” workout for most athletes.

Three rounds of eight reps each:
Complex C

Hang snatch
Overhead squat
Back squat
Good mornings
Row
Deadlift

Do them like this:
Hang snatch x 8
Overhead squat x 8
Back squat x 8
Good morning x 8
Row x 8
Deadlift x 8

Put the bar down. Rest. Repeat for two more rounds!

I offer you a total of six complexes (see below). Try these variations: Three rounds of three, Five rounds of three, three rounds of five, three rounds of eight. Every so often, do five rounds of eight (good luck).

After you put away the equipment, drink your protein shake. Later, perhaps after the first big meal, do your sport. If you are an Olympic lifter, try this training session.

Easy Strength Approach to O Lifting

If you follow my work, you know my Movement Matrix.

On the far right, you will find the two lifts in the SPORT of Olympic lifting. Winning in the O lifts requires that you have the highest total of those two lifts in your weight category. It’s a sport, but the lifts can also be done to train other athletes.

In “my world,” the O lifts are foundational movements for football and throwing and everything else, IF we have the time and the appropriate mobility, flexibility and fitness.

I get lots of requests for programming the O lifts, but the issue is always multi-faceted:

1. Do you have an Olympic bar and a place to drop weights?
2. Do you know the lifts?
3. What are your records in the snatch, clean and jerk, and total?
4. Why are you asking me to help you online?

Each is key. With Question Four, I often discover that the person is broken, damaged and destroyed by trying to train like a drugged up full-time lifter who eats, sleeps and trains…and somebody makes those meals.

Often, I suggest an Easy Strength approach with appropriate poundage and per cents. Basically, I think, and this is nothing new, that the casual trainer can make GREAT progress focusing simply on the O lifts and ONE conditioning tool. The weight is usually in the 70-80% range and we only go HEAVY on the platform at a meet with three officials.

And, yes, I wish I would have done this myself!!!!

Basically, the ES O Lift is simply a five-day a week training program that involves three weeks of:

Snatch
Clean and Jerk
Farmer Walks or Prowlers or Sled Pulls (and vary it as you wish)

Then, a single week of:

Power Snatch
Power Clean
Front Squats

That’s it.

With the Olympic lift training, for a non-national or non-world class lifter, is going to be a study in “picking options.” (I use “managing compromises” to explain how you prepare for things like rugby, American football and war. Nothing is perfect…you compromise. For most sports, we “pick options.” There are many ways to get to the top…pick one!)

I feel that the performance of the Olympic lifts is oddly the SMARTEST training in sports (we can include the power lifts, too, here):

Your sport blends the technical training with the strength (mobility and flexibility) training at the same time.

Adding the Loaded Carries (Farmer Walks or Prowlers or Sled Pulls) and the Front Squats are for conditioning/work capacity purposes. Yes, if necessary, drop those! (I wouldn’t recommend it)

Quickly, the “rules:”

1. NEVER miss an attempt in training. If you do, you really missed the point of this whole program.
2. Strive to use the “Heels Only” technique (see the Get Up! archives for details)
3. Always finish fresh…and enthusiastic

Repeat this for three weeks.

Day One (Five days a week training)
Snatch: 5 sets of 2 with a single weight
Clean and Jerk: 5 sets of singles with a single weight
Farmer Walks or Prowlers or Sled Pulls

Day Two
Snatch: 3 sets of 3 with a heavier load than Day One (it can be one kilo)
Clean and Jerk: 3 singles with a heavier load than Day One
Farmer Walks or Prowlers or Sled Pulls
Day Three
Snatch: 2 sets of 5 with a lighter load
Clean and Jerk: 5 singles with a lighter load
Farmer Walks or Prowlers or Sled Pulls

Day Four
Snatch: 5 sets of 2 with a single weight
Clean and Jerk: 5 sets of singles with a single weight
Farmer Walks or Prowlers or Sled Pulls
The secret to the program. Try to go a little heavier than Day One but try to see if it “feels” the same.

Day Five
Snatch: A set of five, add weight, a set of three, add weight: double
Clean and Jerk: Three singles adding weight each time.
Farmer Walks or Prowlers or Sled Pulls

Measure progress by the Day One and Day Four loads. These should nudge upwards monthly.
Week Three, Day Five: strive for heavier and heavier attempts each month.

Week Four
Day One
Power Snatch: 3 sets of 3
Power Clean: 3 sets of 3
Front Squat: 3 sets of 3

Day Two
Power Snatch: 2 sets of 5 (fast and snappy…find a good load)
Power Clean: 2 sets of 5 (fast and snappy…find a good load)
Front Squat: 2 sets of 5 (fast and snappy…find a good load)

Day Three
Go HEAVIER than Day One
Power Snatch: 3 sets of 3
Power Clean: 3 sets of 3
Front Squat: 3 sets of 3

Day Four
Repeat load from Day Two (go heavier NEXT month)
Power Snatch: 2 sets of 5
Power Clean: 2 sets of 5
Front Squat: 2 sets of 5

Day Five
Go HEAVIER than Day Three (if reasonable)
Power Snatch: 3 sets of 3
Power Clean: 3 sets of 3
Front Squat: 3 sets of 3

If you read my work, you know I don’t trust per cents, but an experienced lifter would think about 65-70% (or less) on the first round of doing this. Oddly, you might feel so good that you jump up really heavy and…

Miss the point of the program!

The volume is deceptive. My math skills are always suspect, but it appears that we are doing 18 quality sets of snatches a week (Weeks one through three) and 21 sets (basically singles) in the Clean and Jerk.

My coach, Dave Turner, got me to understand too late in my career that the Clean AND Jerk takes a really high toll on the body.

Singles are fine.

Can you do more? Well, try this first. My goal for you is to have a full month of “makes” and grease the positions and patterns. After the second full month, “invent” a meet and go heavy and see how you feel AND see how you do.

You are going to argue it’s “too easy.”

Until you do it.

An Explanation of Complexes
My definition of a complex is simple. A complex is a series of lifts back to back where you finish the reps of one lift before moving on to the next lift. The barbell only leaves your hand or touches the floor after all of the lifts are completed. Although you can do them with dumbbells or kettlebells, I argue that we only use barbells. Certainly, there's great value in the other tools, but for getting athletes bigger, I like to use the heavier bar.

The key to organizing a complex is to make sure that the bar passes over your head in some kind of logical manner. In other words, if you do rows first, followed by back squats, how did the bar get there? I try to have the bar pass backwards over the head after a few lifts, but only pass forward again one time.

So, when you try these (it's probably best to use a broomstick first), note that it'll save you some effort if you think about the exercise transitions before you get too heavy.

For example, if you have a military press before a back squat, on the last military press rep, lower the weight to the back.

Take a minute to think them through before going for a max on these complexes.

Your rest periods should be longer than what you originally think. Like most of my workouts, these appear easy on paper.

The most difficult thing to consider is the rep range. For a fat burning hit and a massive conditioning bang, try doing sets of eight.
Complex A for Eights

Row x 8
Clean x 8
Front squat x 8
Military press x 8
Back squat x 8
Good mornings x 8

Gently place the bar on the ground and rest!

I like sets of three for adding mass to my young athletes. The more time under the bar, the more the body adapts by getting bigger. Moreover, it seems to also be most helpful on the playing field. When you watch a Sophomore boy handle Complex A with 155 for three complexes of three reps each, you have to realize that this is a very strong human being, even if he's just 15.

You can play with any rep variations you like, but I've found that eights, fives and threes are the best. If you do five sets of eight, you probably won't be doing much more in this workout. Three sets of three make an excellent pre-lift warm-up or, with heavier weights, can be used as a strength and mass building workout.

The sets seem to be almost geometric in the impact on the body. Err on the side of caution for the first few workouts before attempting more than three sets of complexes.


One other thing I like to do is to print out each complex in size 68 Arial font so that I can see the whole series on the ground in front of me. Place the sheet about three feet in front of the barbell and simply keep your mind on the exercise at hand. Use the sheet to remind you to move to the next exercise. With my large groups, I have the sheets all in plastic protectors, and we save them for weeks at a time.

The Select Six

Now it's time I offer you my six favorite complexes. Note that each has six lifts and many of the exercises will be fairly familiar to all of you. If you don't know how to do a lift, don't do it.

Complex A

Row
Clean
Front squat
Military press
Back squat
Good mornings

Complex B

Deadlift
Clean-grip high pull
Clean-grip snatch
Back squat
Good mornings
Row

Complex C

Hang snatch
Overhead squat
Back squat
Good mornings
Row
Deadlift

Complex D

Upright row
Clean-grip snatch
Back squat
Behind the neck press
Good mornings
Row

Complex E

Power clean
Military press
Back squat
Good mornings
Behind the neck press
Front squat

Complex F

Overhead squat
Back squat
Good morning
Front squat
Rows
Deadlift

Complexes: Keep it Simple

Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Old Miler
*
Total Posts: 1744
01-31-20 05:23 PM - Post#893469    



  • Dan John Said:
In Junior College, 400 meters a 54.



That is impressive!
 
Tim Clark
*
Total Posts: 20
Complexes twice a week
01-31-20 05:46 PM - Post#893472    



Dan your last post is worth an expensive book and a cult following.

Edited by Tim Clark on 01-31-20 05:46 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Dan John
*
Total Posts: 12292
01-31-20 05:47 PM - Post#893473    



Just join danjohnworkouts.com and I will be happy!!
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...


Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you


 
Craig1971
*
Total Posts: 250
Complexes twice a week
01-31-20 06:16 PM - Post#893476    



  • iPood Said:
  • vegpedlr Said:
Any way to combine complexes with ES? Or does that defeat the purpose of both?



In a way, you can do the ABC in an ES fashion: choose a pair of KBs that allows you to complete five rounds somewhat easy-ish. And keep doing it, session after session, until fifteen rounds means you barely break a sweat (or your heart rate doesn't increase over X bpms).

Then bump the load and start all over again.



This sounds like something I can use. Thanks
iPood. Great forum this!
Thanks to everyone who makes this forum so useful and such a good place to be.




Edited by Craig1971 on 01-31-20 06:17 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Old Miler
*
Total Posts: 1744
Complexes twice a week
01-31-20 06:20 PM - Post#893478    



Dan, you've sold me on my next program. After months of easy strength and easy running, I feel the urge to drop some fat and do something a bit more "sporty"; but I know work and weather won't permit a full training schedule until April. So how about:

- Twice a week, a complex (after an OS-ish warmup, and maybe a fast)

- Twice a week, hill sprints/intervals/20-min- tempo-run

- Easy runs, as time and life permits.





Edited by Old Miler on 01-31-20 06:24 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
DanMartin
*
Total Posts: 20705
01-31-20 06:22 PM - Post#893479    



Savage!
Mark it Zero.


 
Jordan Derksen
*
Total Posts: 392
Complexes twice a week
03-14-21 09:27 PM - Post#908830    



Hi Dan,

I figured I would resurrect this thread instead of making a new one. So I was reading up on your intervention book, which is the next book on my list to pick up. Anyway, I got side tracked and ended up reading an older article from you talking about warmups.

Now... my warmups aren't much. There is certainly no 'warm' going on. Some light moving and get to it. In the article you talked about the expanded 9 human movements and how in a warmup one should strive to do them all as practice.

I just started my 3rd run of even easier strength and figured hey, good a time as any. So I did some brief thinking about how to make this quick and effective.

I settled on

2 rounds:
8 reps of Complex C with an empty bar (muscle snatch instead of hang snatch)
15 pushups
8 pullups
5 presses with a light KB

Once I got to the actual workout it was amazing how crisp the movements were and how much tension I could generate in the movements. The weight felt lighter because I was actually warmed up. Gonna stick with this for the time being and really test it thoroughly. Maybe it'll give that extra little kick I need to help get a bit leaner.

Also, gotta say, now that it's my 3rd run of EES I'm really starting to grasp the program. What was it you said? Do, or don't do. But I recommend do.

I'll let you know how the complex as warmup goes. It's certainly a lot of practice in a short amount of time.




Edited by Jordan Derksen on 03-14-21 09:29 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
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