redbomber
Total Posts: 55
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04-18-05 05:33 PM - Post#94509
What do you all think of that bodybuilding routine by Vince Gironda? Leg extensions instead of squats, leg curls instead of deadlifts, cable rows instead of barbell rows. I dunno myself. I was thinking of trying it but am alittle too worried about throwing out the meat and potatoes of weight training and going for those "other" exercises. Anyone here ever try it? It's from his book unleashing the wild physique, or whatever it's called.
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LarryKreeger
Total Posts: 1847
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I don't know about that particular bodybuilding routine by Vince but he successfully trained many people. If he trained you I'm sure you would have improved on that routine. However having somebody train you and reading about his routine in a book can sometimes be very different things. I've read about people that have tried HIT and it didn't do anything for them but I couldn't help but wonder what would have happened if they had been personally trained by Arthur. :) I think most of the time its not the routine that's important - it's how hard you're willing to work the routine before you give up on it.
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IB138
Total Posts: 9321
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I suspect that a lot of Vince's pupils did heavy deadlifts, squats, bench presses, barbell rows, etc. on their own at home or another gym. But, I could be wrong.
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CB
Total Posts: 5666
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There are several of us here that use Gironda routines and I have for a year now with very satisfactory results. I journal my routines and diet in "Training Logs and Challenges". VG wasn't the best communicator so there are many misconceptions about his methods. You really need more than "UWP" to become familiar with VG's methods. "Blueprint for the Bodybuilder", "The Vince Gironda File Volume #1 & #2", would clarify things much better. The Vince Gironda thread here on IOL as well as www.vincegironda.com and the forums there are very helpfull also. By the way I do frog squats, front squats, sissy squats which he approved of as well as leg extensions and leg curls. His concern was symmetry and wanted wide hipped men like myself to avoid exercises that increased the width and size of the hips ruining the taper. CB
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cajinjohn
Total Posts: 12495
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Great reply CB, Don't forget Hack squats which was also a Gironda fav. He had a Hack machine in his gym. I used it when he was there. He had a set up to hold your feet while you did sissy squats. It also braced the back of your calves. I didn't like it because it put too much pressure on my knees. He had several one of a kind pieces of equipt. that he designed.
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CB
Total Posts: 5666
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Yeah Cajin, I don't have and have never had the opportunity to try a hack machine. www.newyorkbarbells.com sells a sissy/roman chair squat device. Always wondered how those might work out. Sure would like to have one of his spider curl benches and some of the other equipment I've seen pictures of. Thanks, CB
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Pangus
Total Posts: 12
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I follow some of Vince Gironda's principles myself: minimum rest, isolate the muscle, etc. but I also like to move some iron so I do reg. BB curls w/o his recommended "false grip", deadlifts, etc., etc. If you do things 100% the Vince way, 10 sec rest (!) w/ super strict isolation you are forced to use some pretty light weights. I just didn't feel the usual deep stimulation.
I spoke with the late Don Ross once at Gold's Venice and told me he used to train at Vince's Gym. I watched as Ross did a fairly common chest routine (incline DBs, flys and BB bench) but noted he finished his (heavy) benches with presses to the neck, 3 sets of 12 @ 185 ..."Little somethin' I learned from Vince!"
My advice is to follow Ross's lead. Do some heavy work with a looser style, more weight, a bit more rest and add a Gironda movement as a finisher. Besides Ross, he trained some big guys: Don Peters, Don Howarth, Larry Scott and - in 1968 - Arnold Strong ;-) so he knew what he was talking about.
I trained at Vince's just a few times in the 1980's. One of the most impressive sights I saw there was Brian Keith (actor in many Disney flicks plus TV series "Family Affair". At the time, he was in the series "Hardcastle & McCormick"). At 60+ years, the guy was sporting some big arms!
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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An important thing to remember about Vince and many of his training methods is that Vince was about "body sculpting" or "cosmetic beauty." He viewed weights as tools to create an aesthetically pleasing physique...and not necessarily great size or strength.
To be sure, one can develop a fair amount of strength using Vince's methods but it won't compare with the strength that you can develop by using a protocol such as HIT or high sets/low reps with heavy weight. Here's a pic that demonstrates that Vince wasn't exactly frail....
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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And one more.
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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Quatermass
Total Posts: 78
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Quote:
Pangus said:
I spoke with the late Don Ross once at Gold's Venice and told me he used to train at Vince's Gym. I watched as Ross did a fairly common chest routine (incline DBs, flys and BB bench) but noted he finished his (heavy) benches with presses to the neck, 3 sets of 12 @ 185 ..."Little somethin' I learned from Vince!"
I trained at Vince's just a few times in the 1980's. One of the most impressive sights I saw there was Brian Keith (actor in many Disney flicks plus TV series "Family Affair". At the time, he was in the series "Hardcastle & McCormick"). At 60+ years, the guy was sporting some big arms!
I screwed up my shoulder some years ago doing wide grip benches high on the chest (as recommended by Michael Yessis in his kinesiology column in Muscle & Fitness because in lab tests the pec muscles were shown to be activated more directly by that approach). Afterwards I read in several articles that unless you have great genetics and/or are using steroids to aid recovery such an approach is a sure shoulder wrecker. To this day my shoulder is a plaguey nuisance I have to take into account when I lift.
Would have loved to have seen Keith, one of my favorite actors in action. The first time I ever saw an Olympic barbell was as a kid watching an ep of Family Affair and "Uncle Bill" went to a gym and clad in one of the old standard grey sweatsuits layed on a flat Olympic bench and did benches with an Olympic bar with two 45 lb. plates on it. After that Keith was one of my early weight training inspirations. A great build for a non-competive bodybuilder of the time period. (Suffering from emphysema and lung cancer, after returning from a stay in the hospital and ten weeks after the suicide of his daughter, he commited suicide on June 24th, 1997. I had read sometime back that his father, actor Robert Keith commited suicide by jumping off of the Hollywoodland sign (December 22,1966).
| A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied, "The one I feed the most." ~ source unknown
Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life. ~ Terry Pratchett (Jingo)
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cajinjohn
Total Posts: 12495
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The trick to useing any of Gironda's methods is to not use heavy weights. He often said while I was there that more muscle can be built with light weights then heavy. It's all in how you use them.
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mhess
Total Posts: 749
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Cajin, if you are going to attend the next bash, be prepared to spend alot of time answering my pesky little questions about the days of Vince's Gym. I love to hear your stories.....
Must have been awesome......
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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Mhess: If you keep Cajin well supplied with coffee and eggs, you'll hear all kinds of good stuff. Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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DennisH
Total Posts: 2884
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When are you going to write your own book, WW. "Wicked Willie's Wisdom" or something like that. You sure know an awful lot for someone who went to State. Oops, did I say that out loud......
Dennis
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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Oh...OH! That tore it! You call it maize...we call it corn! Actually Dennis, I've toyed with that idea. However, every time I devote some thought to the issue, I find that there are already X amount of books out there on whatever subject I choose. I have been published twice...and both times I was stiffed on pay. Kind of left a bad taste in my mouth I penned an article titled "Keep It Simple" in a now defunct shooting magazine called "The Shootist...about keeping your shooting activities simple and concentrating on the basics. The other was a piece for my bride's centerfold debut in the now defunct cowboy action shooting magazine that was called "Trail's End." Hmmmm, it would appear that publishing my work is fatal to a magazine! Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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DennisH
Total Posts: 2884
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Well, your writings here are certainly a fun read.
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Laree
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I'll publish it! Neither we nor the authors are getting rich, but we pay on time. Don't tell Dave, he'll freak... he'd go with it eventually, though...
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pointcove
Total Posts: 1136
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10 reps of 10 sets of 6 exercises is my simplified Gironda version. I like it and avoid injury while gaining muscle. I know CB and others take this to a much higher level with their timing of sets and rest periods, but I generally just try to go fast as I can without worrying about the time.
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JohnnyPro
Total Posts: 456
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I trained at Vince's Gym for one year. I believe it was 1975 or 1976. I saw Rick Wayne there and he did a double biceps pose. Boy was I impressed. I also saw Lou Ferrigno and talked with him for a couple minutes. It was right after he had stopped playing professional football with the N.Y. Jets. I saw a few actors there but I don't know their names. I think one of them was in the movie "Rocky" with Sylvester Stallone. I saw Larry Scott, my idol, across the street from the gym in a Sizzler's restaurant. Those were the days...
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Manor
Total Posts: 6773
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I think Vince's approach to physique creation is a good one; CB, WW and Cajin give great insight to his techniques and have helped me (and my family) by utilizing Vince’s techniques in our current programs. The best approach as it has been said is to mix things up, not always training the same way and changing rep schemes etc. For example I am currently doing a type of 8x8 routine which will change to a 6x6 variation and then move to a 4x12 routine, the phase for each is 4 weeks in duration. This works very well and accomplishes many of what is believed in the bodybuilding world, reps in the 8-12 range is best for building muscle, below 8 is good for strength. The intensity will generate fat loss, feel it to the core. We intend to follow the routine until completion and see where we will go from there, Danièle and Samantha feel like they might just repeat the cycle again; I’m toying with the idea of following CB’s bulking routine or going back to my favourite bulking routine HIT style, the possibilities are wide open. Vince’s techniques are easy to follow and versatile which I think were the appeal for his teachings.
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