WxHerk
Total Posts: 334
|
10-05-22 04:33 PM - Post#922389
...and everyone else.
All thanks to Dan John, I bought John McCallum's "Keys to Progress" several years ago and have continued to enjoy it over the years.
Mr. McCallum espouses Peripheral Heart Action, or "PHA" a few times as a training method, which I am certain has morphed into other things.
I'm just curious what "old school" programs, movements, protocols, etc. worked really well back in the day but you just don't see performed or mentioned much anymore?
Al, you come to mind because I know you have been training since looong before it was fashionable and was in fact questionable in some circles.
|
iPood
Total Posts: 2360
|
...and everyone else.
All thanks to Dan John, I bought John McCallum's "Keys to Progress" several years ago and have continued to enjoy it over the years.
Mr. McCallum espouses Peripheral Heart Action, or "PHA" a few times as a training method, which I am certain has morphed into other things.
I'm just curious what "old school" programs, movements, protocols, etc. worked really well back in the day but you just don't see performed or mentioned much anymore?
Al, you come to mind because I know you have been training since looong before it was fashionable and was in fact questionable in some circles.
The first one the comes to my mind is Bill Starr’s The Stronger Shall Survive.
"I think we often spend too much time focusing on max fitness
and not nearly enough on maintaining our minimums.
It seems we need to think sustainable rather than obtainable.
Meaning whatever we do today, we can do it again tomorrow.
Never taking so much from ourselves that we can't."
Dan Martin |
|
Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
|
10-06-22 07:40 AM - Post#922394
I would only add those old one set workouts where you did like twenty different exercises and did one set to about 8-20 reps and then moved to the next. I have some examples in the new book and I had friends who trained like that. Some lifters only used a single bar (a solid ONE weight bar like 110 to 130 pounds) so you squatted and curled the same weight.
I was told that it was oddly stimulating but this is the most Old School thing I know.
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
|
Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
|
10-06-22 08:01 AM - Post#922396
Everybody talks about it, but I question how many people have actually done the 20-rep breathing squats program to completion.
|
Dan John
Total Posts: 12292
|
10-06-22 08:28 AM - Post#922397
Well, that's one of the pillars of Mass Made Simple...a variation, yes, but still the key
Daniel John
Just handing down what I was handed down...
Make a Difference.
Live. Love. Laugh.
Balance work, rest, play and pray (enjoy beauty and solitude)
Sleep soundly. Drink Water. Eat veggies and protein. Walk.
Wear your seat belt. Don’t smoke. Floss your teeth.
Put weights overhead. Pick weights off the floor. Carry weights.
Reread great books. Say thank you |
|
DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
|
10-06-22 10:41 AM - Post#922398
Everybody talks about it, but I question how many people have actually done the 20-rep breathing squats program to completion.
I did. Twenty rep squats took me from 175 to 265. Of course it wasn't always just the basic Bench/Row/Squat/Pullover routine, but that is more or less what I did in the beginning. Eventually, when Dr. Ken became my coach, I just did twenty rep sets once a week on my heavy squat day as a back-off set. And as a total aside, once I got to 325 x 20 I stopped adding weight. I felt that that was enough because each time I did that I had to lay on the floor to recover. (What I'm trying to say is that 325 x 20 was never easy and never felt light.) YMMV
|
AAnnunz
Total Posts: 24932
|
Hey John,
I'm afraid my response will be somewhat myopic, because when I began, I pretty much followed what was popular in my neighborhood, then "graduated" to the muscle mag routines.
Nearly every pre-teen in my area (New York suburbs) tried the Charles Atlas dynamic tension (isometric) routine first. Nobody built the type of muscle we saw in Steve Reeve's Hercules (1958), so as soon as we were old enough to get our first weight sets, we abandoned Chuck and jumped into Steve's full body routine or one of the very similar routines that came with our weights. Mine was from Dan Lurie, and it was awesome! Both routines are like the typical moderate volume, three day full body routines popular today.
That said, Bob Hoffman's Strength & Health put out some bodybuilding/weightliftin g combos modeled after Tommy Kono's routines. I have no experience with these, but I think what coach Dan does might be similar.
At some point in the 1960s, the four to six day bodybuilding splits (antagonistic body parts, upper/lower, push/pull/legs) took over. They are a bit more condensed than the one bodypart per day bro splits you see the majority gym rats doing today, but as I'm sure you know, they are still wildly popular.
The main difference between some of the old school routines of yore and their present iterations is volume. For example, I haven't seen anything resembling Bill Pearl's sixty set workouts, which turned the few freaks who could stay with them into beasts.
Since you brought up PHAT: When 1963 Mr. Unviverse Bob Gajda tried to bring it to the forefront, he didn't get a great response. I think that was a big mistake, and I am happy it's being given some well deserved recognition now. PHAT is very flexible. This week, I did a six round, functional movement version (goblet squat, pullup, KB swing, pushup, heartbeat) followed by suitcase carries that kept me in Zone 2 for 1/2 hour. So, I got good conditioning along with a nice hypertrophy/strength hit.
That's the best I can do, John. Thanks for allowing me a trip down memory lane.
| Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances. |
Edited by AAnnunz on 10-06-22 12:58 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
Jordan D
Total Posts: 771
|
10-06-22 10:53 AM - Post#922401
I freely admit: I’ve never done either 20-rep squats nor MMS (but I’ve gleefully pushed others to do the latter, and watched the heavenly glory that ensues in that final big 50-rep set).
I did. Twenty rep squats took me from 175 to 265. Of course it wasn't always just the basic Bench/Row/Squat/Pullover routine, but that is more or less what I did in the beginning. Eventually, when Dr. Ken became my coach, I just did twenty rep sets once a week on my heavy squat day as a back-off set. And as a total aside, once I got to 325 x 20 I stopped adding weight. I felt that that was enough because each time I did that I had to lay on the floor to recover. (What I'm trying to say is that 325 x 20 was never easy and never felt light.) YMMV
Am I right in remembering that McCallum said you need to keep pushing the weights up till they get above 300, and then you’ll have reaped the full benefits? Something to that effect?
|
DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
|
10-06-22 11:30 AM - Post#922404
I freely admit: I’ve never done either 20-rep squats nor MMS (but I’ve gleefully pushed others to do the latter, and watched the heavenly glory that ensues in that final big 50-rep set).
I did. Twenty rep squats took me from 175 to 265. Of course it wasn't always just the basic Bench/Row/Squat/Pullover routine, but that is more or less what I did in the beginning. Eventually, when Dr. Ken became my coach, I just did twenty rep sets once a week on my heavy squat day as a back-off set. And as a total aside, once I got to 325 x 20 I stopped adding weight. I felt that that was enough because each time I did that I had to lay on the floor to recover. (What I'm trying to say is that 325 x 20 was never easy and never felt light.) YMMV
Am I right in remembering that McCallum said you need to keep pushing the weights up till they get above 300, and then you’ll have reaped the full benefits? Something to that effect?
IIRC, 150% of bodyweight x 20 was the goal.
|
WxHerk
Total Posts: 334
|
Hey John,
I'm afraid my response will be somewhat myopic, because when I began, I pretty much followed what was popular in my neighborhood, then "graduated" to the muscle mag routines.
Nearly every pre-teen in my area (New York suburbs) tried the Charles Atlas dynamic tension (isometric) routine first. Nobody built the type of muscle we saw in Steve Reeve's Hercules (1958), so as soon as we were old enough to get our first weight sets, we abandoned Chuck and jumped into Steve's full body routine or one of the very similar routines that came with our weights. Mine was from Dan Lurie, and it was awesome! Both routines are like the typical moderate volume, three day full body routines popular today.
That said, Bob Hoffman's Strength & Health put out some bodybuilding/weightliftin g combos modeled after Tommy Kono's routines. I have no experience with these, but I think what coach Dan does might be similar.
At some point in the 1960s, the four to six day bodybuilding splits (antagonistic body parts, upper/lower, push/pull/legs) took over. They are a bit more condensed than the one bodypart per day bro splits you see the majority gym rats doing today, but as I'm sure you know, they are still wildly popular.
The main difference between some of the old school routines of yore and their present iterations is volume. For example, I haven't seen anything resembling Bill Pearl's sixty set workouts, which turned the few freaks who could stay with them into beasts.
Since you brought up PHAT: When 1963 Mr. Unviverse Bob Gajda tried to bring it to the forefront, he didn't get a great response. I think that was a big mistake, and I am happy it's being given some well deserved recognition now. PHAT is very flexible. This week, I did a six round, functional movement version (goblet squat, pullup, KB swing, pushup, heartbeat) followed by suitcase carries that kept me in Zone 2 for 1/2 hour. So, I got good conditioning along with a nice hypertrophy/strength hit.
That's the best I can do, John. Thanks for allowing me a trip down memory lane.
The best you can do ? ? ?
That's like Babe Ruth swatting a ball 550 feet and saying "that's the best I can do..." Thanks a ton, Al, that is gold!!
|
WxHerk
Total Posts: 334
|
10-06-22 02:21 PM - Post#922409
...Eventually, when Dr. Ken became my coach...
WOW. That's like saying "when Howlin' Wolf became my guitar teacher."
I like your assessment of 325 x 20 being a good stopping point. Having gotten up to one set of 20 X 275, enough becomes enough!
|
DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
|
10-06-22 03:14 PM - Post#922410
...Eventually, when Dr. Ken became my coach...
WOW. That's like saying "when Howlin' Wolf became my guitar teacher."
I like your assessment of 325 x 20 being a good stopping point. Having gotten up to one set of 20 X 275, enough becomes enough!
My dear departed friend helped me so much with my lifting. In particular, Doc helped me with the last 12 weeks before a meet. What to lift, when to lift, diet, etc..
The reason I stayed with 325 x 20 was at the suggestion of Marv Phillips. And yes, the Marv Phillips from "Inside Powerlifting." He was a big believer in the back-off set. After a few sets of 5 at 505 a set of 325 felt light...until about the 12th rep. After that it hurt.
|
|
