Lauren
Total Posts: 580
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04-20-05 08:44 AM - Post#95289
I have determined that I am having trouble digesting proteins since my recent yeast illness. I have tried every way around it, and experimented some. I get terrible intestinal aches, bloats and rolls when I eat over a small amount of protein now... for example, I can have 2-3 eggs but not egg-protein shake... I can have a mini-meal of chicken but not beef... and I can't eat any large portion of anything. I lost ALOT of size in the past month. I know there are digestive enzymes out there. There's a huge argument in the nutritional community about them; most whole food 'carries' its own enzymes so it can be digested. (eg: milk carries its own enzymes if in the raw form; homogenization and pasturization removes them). So, long story short, I don't get much protein now, since I'm not digesting it! I feel like a vegetarian, but at least when I eat, I'm not ill anymore. Anyone encounter this issue before, and how did you handle it, and is there any enzyme or solution you recommend? (my next choice is to contact Jay Robb's company for advice) Lauren
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Phil_N
Total Posts: 2924
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Lauren, Have you ever tried Charcoal? I remember using it many years ago after I got over a good bout with some kind of flu. I know it says that it is used mostly for gas pains but I do remember settling my stomach. Good luck, I hope you get over this soon. http://tuberose.com/Charcoal.html
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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Sorry to hear that. I don't have a lot of personal experience with this issue but have done some reading on it. I might proceed in the following manner if it were me: I'd start out with easily available and weaker enzymes...papain (papaya), bromelain (pineapple) and acetic acid (apple cider vinegar in water.) It is generally thought that these enzymes are too weak to be of any assistance but always start with the least severe solution before you unleash the "big guns." Sipping about 6 oz. of water with 3 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar in it is a good starting point - be sure to rinse the mouth to protect dental enamel. If no relief is obtained, I'd step up to a digestive enzyme tablet. One with protease, lipase and all that good stuff. If after using this product for a while, you notice noxious fumes exiting your body that are curling the paint on the walls...you don't need them. (OR, you're so messed up that your stomach needs the careful application of raw oyster therapy...which has its own unique risks.) If these didn't help...then I'd opt for betain HCL and pepsin. If after using the specified dosage along with a meal, you notice a "burning" sensation in your stomach...you don't need this strong of an enzyme/acid. (Of course, probiotics may also be included...but are expensive, especially the Primal Force stuff. But you already know more about probiotics than I do.) If there is still no relief...medical intervention may be necessary to determine the extent of the problem. Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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Lauren
Total Posts: 580
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Quote:
Bubo said:
Have you ever tried Charcoal?
Yes, have some... but that solves the symptoms, not the problem - charcoal removes the bloationg and gas, but the inderlying problem is still there.
Thanks for your thought, however! :)
Lauren
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Lauren
Total Posts: 580
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Quote:
Wicked Willie said:
If no relief is obtained, I'd step up to a digestive enzyme tablet. One with protease, lipase and all that good stuff. If after using this product for a while, you notice noxious fumes exiting your body that are curling the paint on the walls...you don't need them. (OR, you're so messed up that your stomach needs the careful application of raw oyster therapy...which has its own unique risks.)
If these didn't help...then I'd opt for betain HCL and pepsin. If after using the specified dosage along with a meal, you notice a "burning" sensation in your stomach...you don't need this strong of an enzyme/acid.
(Of course, probiotics may also be included...but are expensive, especially the Primal Force stuff. But you already know more about probiotics than I do.)
If there is still no relief...medical intervention may be necessary to determine the extent of the problem.
I.. uh.. already have the noxious fumes. Ugh. With me being the dainty flower that I am ;), it's unnerving ;) (kidding; I'm not much of a dainty flower... I went to Clown College at the circus, after all..)
What's the raw oyster bizniz?
I know about HCL... hmm...
Yeah, I have probiotics, especially Primal Defense. Strong stuff. Mayb go back on it soon... it was so strong it may have caused my hospital visit the other week...
Thanks, WW.
Lauren
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ccrow
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Lauren, it sounds like you might be having trouble with the toughest proteins, but not the easier ones. Whey, casein, and fish seem to be the easiest ones, and you can get a ton of protein from these foods, so maybe you can cover requirements with these while things straighten out. Reintroduce the troublesome proteins gradually. Beef, eggs, and especially boiled eggs seem to be the toughest proteins to digest. By the way, I kind of doubt that the enzymes that are in raw milk but missing in homogenized pasteurized milk are the same enzymes that digest milk. If they were, it would pre-digest in the jug, and that would not taste good. In fact I have never gotten a straight answer from a whole-foods person as to exactly what enzymes are missing and what they would do in my diet. I am open to an explanation but I am skeptical since I have been asking for years and never heard one that holds water. I wonder if in time your body may naturally recover its ability to produce the necessary enzymes. Vegetarians talk about it taking months to make the switch from a carnivorous to herbivorous diet. Adding in digestive enzymes may be tricky. If you introduce them via a supplement, maybe your system will not get off its duff and start producing these enzymes again. I would use them sparingly and try to wean off as soon as possible. Willie, I am just curious, why HCL last? Also why add in non-protein enzymes (lipase etc.)?
The most important test a lifter has to pass
is the test of time.
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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Lauren:
I've seen it hinted at but not elucidated in my readings that raw oysters can be used to rehab the stomach. Especially a stomach that is stretched from overeating, raw oysters help to shrink it back to normal and restore elasticity. Plus, being raw, the enzymes help to rebuild the function of the stomach, since an oyster is basically just a stomach in a shell. (Chuckle) You are well acquainted with the risks of raw oysters and bacteria...marinating them in Tabasco sauce for an hour or so helps.
Unfortunately, I've not seen recommended amounts, duration of therapy, etc.
Have you considered a 2-3 day distilled water fast, then building your way back up to protein foods over about a two week period? You know the progression, clear soups, green leafy vegetables, single fruits, mixed salads, then finally, single source proteins.
Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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Quote:
ccrow said:
Willie, I am just curious, why HCL last? Also why add in non-protein enzymes (lipase etc.)?
The use of HCL as a last, rather than first resort is to avoid using such a strong compound without an actual need for it. In other words, it would be far preferable to use the weaker (and more natural) enzymes like papain and bromelain if they will do the trick. If a .22 will get the job done, there is no need for a cannon....
The use of non protein digesting enzymes is a "just in case" move. If the digestion of fats and carbohydrates is interfering with protein digestion, then the addition of these enzymes should assist. I am not one of those that buys into the necessity of taking carbohydrates and proteins separately...but in a compromised digestive system, predominance of one food type over the over MIGHT present a problem.
Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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ArtH
Total Posts: 804
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I don't have near the severity of the problem but chewable papaya tablets have helped me out quite a bit.. Art H.
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jazzman
Total Posts: 223
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"I am not one of those that buys into the necessity of taking carbohydrates and proteins separately" W.W., interesting comment. I've wondered why in some circles "red beans and rice" are considered the perfect food combination. Thanks for the information BTW. The comment about the benefit of raw oysters triggers some ideas for repairing years of overeating..... * * * * * * * Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision Muhammad Ali
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Chris McClinch
Total Posts: 8538
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Jazzman, Red beans and rice are considered a perfect food combination in vegetarian circles because neither contains all the essential amino acids on its own, but the two combine to provide the full suite of essential amino acids. For proper vegetarian protein combinations, just make sure you combine a grain (wheat, oats, barley, corn, etc.) with a pulse (beans, nuts, legumes). Red beans and rice and peanut butter and bread are two such popular combinations.
The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get.
If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me."
"Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove
"There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler
"Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic
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jazzman
Total Posts: 223
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Thanks for the reply Chris. Your correct now that I think about it, It is in vegetarian circles that I've read that. * * * * * * * * Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision Muhammad Ali
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Ms. KO
Total Posts: 1856
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I have had pretty significant digestive problems for the last year - I have an ulcer (pretty darn bad one) and now I have been diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome. It's safe to say that at some point every day, I am queasy or in pain for some span of time. Protein powders make me feel like I am going to explode, Isopure has always made me nauseous, and protein bars do go down ok but you have to eat a ton of them which is equivalent, in my mind, to cruel and unusual punishment. The best thing I have found is the canned 50g (3-8g carb, 250 calorie) protein shakes from ABB or RTD. They are light, easy to get down, and seem to stay down pretty easily. They are usually micellized, which means they are highly refined using a special blending process. Usually I can take three of these a day. Once in a while - if I don't eat enough real food or have them too close together - I'll get the rumblies. But these are my current vice and if you find some nice local nutrition store that will sell them by the case at a discount, they go for about 2.40 or less each. A bit pricey, but my appetite comes and goes and this way I can always rest assured I've got my protein bases covered. Just stick a straw in and suck 'em down. You'll be surprised how easy they are on the system. I keep extra straws in the glove compartment of my car - these things are with me all the time. I totally empathize with your predicament. I know exactly how you feel. I, too, have kept up appearances pretty well. Jim had no idea that I was having problems until I told him about the IBS diagnosis Monday. He just thought I had a thing for candles. Hah! Like everywhere - in the livingroom and both downstairs bathrooms all day all the time, tra-la-la, no big deal. They do wonders to maintain your feminine image. :) And in the kitchen? There's that big honking Viking range with six huge gas burners the size of small campfires. Sometimes things just all work out. Best of luck to you. KO
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caberguy
Total Posts: 1432
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Quote:
KO said:
I keep extra straws in the glove compartment of my car - these things are with me all the time.
KO, from now on, I am going to watch "COPS" on tv religiously - I can see it now - you're pulled over for some minor traffic violation - then the officer finds a bunch of straws in your glove compartment...you try to explain that it is for a protein habit, and that you were on your way across town to meet your "connection"...on the upside, you could always go onto IOL and request us to bail ya out...
"Where in the World does the love of God go, when the pounds start feeling like Kilos?"
- to be rhymed with "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" - Gordon Lightfoot |
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Wicked Willie
Total Posts: 16864
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KO: Jim sounds like a true gentleman...even if his lady accidently loosed something that could knock birds out of the air...he wouldn't mention it. (Check his eyes...if there's a big tear in the corner of one eye...he's lying.) I am well versed in candle usage. Not personally mind you but with eight cats...the litter box emanations can become mightly fierce. (Especially after being fed a fish based food...they can really lay some clinkers in there.) Wicked
"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in."
"Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6 |
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Kym
Total Posts: 684
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Quote:
KO said:
I have had pretty significant digestive problems for the last year - I have an ulcer (pretty darn bad one) and now I have been diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome.
KO
Ah, now you're one of us, LOL
I'm the poster child for IBS. Whey protein does not get digested, it gets explosive and shot out within minutes. UNLESS I mix oatmeal with the shake. I also live on those nasty metamucil fiber bars when things (like dinner at a restaurant) get bad. Sometimes you just never know what's going to trigger things off so I keep a stash in my glove box. Oatmeal and metamucil. Keep these as your watch-words, LOL
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((¸¸.•´ ..•´ -:¦:- Kym -:¦:-
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cajinjohn
Total Posts: 12495
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I'm starting to have digestive problems also. I can't even stand myself, and that's something for a man to say. We usually (AHUM) fart proudly, and take credit. I have been thinking about moveing into being a vegy type.
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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Two things may help. Re-establishing a healthy bacteria colony in you gut, and increasing your fiber intake.
First the healthy bacteria: think acidophilus culture and Brewer's yeast. Any sort of anti-biotic therapy kills all bacteria in the gut. (good and bad) B vitamins need the healthy bacteria to prosper and absorb, they also contribute to the healthy gut. Folks who first start taking large amounts of B's have more then day-glow piss.
Second, psyllium husks help maintain the healthy bacteria.
Health food stores sell straight acidphilus culture. Follow the directions on the bottle, mixing Brewer's yeast with a quality yogurt (rich in cultures) will get it done after that.
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Ms. KO
Total Posts: 1856
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Quote:
Kym said:
I also live on those nasty metamucil fiber bars when things (like dinner at a restaurant) get bad. Sometimes you just never know what's going to trigger things off so I keep a stash in my glove box. Oatmeal and metamucil. Keep these as your watch-words, LOL
I fancy the capsules, myself. So now I add six of those to my already snack size baggie of supps everyday, and I can often be seen driving down the 405 freeway at 7:35am every morning, taking my daughter to school, choking down supps with a big canned protein shake replete with straw (before I discovered the straw, chugging the giant can blocked my vision - whole nuther sad story.) Even now, if I saw me on the road, I would swerve to avoid me and cuss me out. Shameful, I know. Anybody know why all Amino tabs are the size of clown shoes? Apparently the ones who make 'em don't take 'em.
See ya on COPS.
Willie - read my lips: "Dry Food. Doggie Door." There are too many noxious catbutts in your home. Quality of life is everything. The candle thing only works with one cat. Anything else requires hazmat removal.
This is becoming one really crappy thread.
KO
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Lauren
Total Posts: 580
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Quote:
KO said:
I have had pretty significant digestive problems for the last year - I have an ulcer (pretty darn bad one) and now I have been diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome. It's safe to say that at some point every day, I am queasy or in pain for some span of time. Protein powders make me feel like I am going to explode, Isopure has always made me nauseous, and protein bars do go down ok but you have to eat a ton of them which is equivalent, in my mind, to cruel and unusual punishment.
The best thing I have found is the canned 50g (3-8g carb, 250 calorie) protein shakes from ABB or RTD. They are light, easy to get down, and seem to stay down pretty easily. They are usually micellized, which means they are highly refined using a special blending process. Usually I can take three of these a day. Once in a while - if I don't eat enough real food or have them too close together - I'll get the rumblies. But these are my current vice and if you find some nice local nutrition store that will sell them by the case at a discount, they go for about 2.40 or less each. A bit pricey, but my appetite comes and goes and this way I can always rest assured I've got my protein bases covered. ...
I totally empathize with your predicament. I know exactly how you feel. I, too, have kept up appearances pretty well. Jim had no idea that I was having problems until I told him about the IBS diagnosis Monday. He just thought I had a thing for candles.
Boy, howdy, yes, when I'm in the thick of the digestive problems, I'm probably no fun to be around ;) . I simply stopped all meat and protein altogether; my last protein shakes hurt me so badly that I was lying in bed crying! Had to give up protein shakes!
I make due with legumes, nuts, eggs, sardines, and occasionally some tuna if I can. Sometimes chicken - I did ok this afternoon with a few hanks. I make homemade chicken soup with organic chicken sausage.
Could you explain the sames of those commercial shake manufacturers again?
I sympathize with you, too, KO!!! :)
Thanks for all the honesty, from everyone... looks like I hit a nerve again!
Lauren
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Ms. KO
Total Posts: 1856
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Lauren
Total Posts: 580
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I just found the ingredients of the ABB shakes: Water, Proprietary Protein Blend (Milk Protein Isolate, Calcium Caseinate, Whey Protein Concentrate), Cocoa Processed with Alkali, Natural and Artificial Flavors (Flavors, Maltodextrin, Dextrose and Modified Food Starch), Maltodextrin, Cellulose Gel, Sucralose, Acesulfame K, Potassium Citrate and Gellan Gum. I'm sorry, but I can't have all those sugars (Maltodextrin, Dextrose and Modified Food Starch, Sucralose). they are not good for my digestion. Anybody know of something without sugar-additives or processing? Lauren
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DanMartin
Total Posts: 20705
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Have you been to a GI Doctor?
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SoloTrainer
Total Posts: 8
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I post rarely but for a clown school graduate, definitely (I studied at Celebration Mime Theater myself). Two things I've discovered empirically. 1) protein artificially stripped of its naturally accompanying fat does not seem to be as well absorbed. Vince Gironda said it, and the Weston Price people say it emphatically.
2) Ginger: prepare your meats and vegetables with fresh, lightly cooked ginger root (especially in virgin coconut oil. It is fantastic for digestion and adds a great flavor to your food. I've come to think in terms of whole foods and traditional cuisine when I run into a dietary issue. What has the human race already tested and proven over thousands of years? There is probably a reason they didn't strip the fat off everything and made use of a variety of colorful, flavorful vegetables and spices...
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Whitley
Total Posts: 68
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Dorian Yates Approved ProPeptide Protein is the most "gentle" protein I've ever used or found. (www.propeptide.com)
It has bifidus, acidopholus (sp?), and yogurt organisms to aid digestion.
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Subeer
Total Posts: 1214
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According to the annals of ayurveda, the fire in the pit of the stomach is called "something-I-forgot-it-was-some-thingy-fire" (ok, I cant remember) are composed of upto some 21 different kind of fires and seven of them are the major ones.
These fires add up to the vitality of the person and health of the entire being including internal body processes. If you ask me? I think they hold some water, but I cant stand all this air-water-earth-fire rationalization to everything from food to thoughts to sex... however...these internal fires (I think this is a primitive name for metabolic factors) can be affected by stress, overloading of the system, too much or too less of anything, and so on...
The main seven fires, as said above can be revitalized, regrouped and restarted by the following natural therapy:
Take a table spoon of freshly squeezed ginger root juice and mix with an equal quantity of honey or rock salt (either one with the juice) to make a dose. Take one dose atleast 15 minutes before lunch and another 15 minutes before dinner. Do this for seven days.
This can rev up your metabolism and work out many digestive and assimilation issues of the stomach, perhaps not all, but most. Flatulence and other special aid we use at the squat rack also have some improvement. The only time I tried this, I wanted to eat anything not clamped down - by day four. Boy, did it stoke my fire or what!
Keep your fluid intake high, have enuf fiber and be ready to take on the world.
Now, where is Helen when you need her?
Subeer
Life's a rock 'n roll
Means you keep rocking and rolling, no matter what, no matter how much; while people feel that you have to smash into the rocks and roll into a ditch...
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