Bill Keyes
Still Tryin'
Posts: 2320
Age: 58
Loc: SF Bay Area
Registered on 03-26-04
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04-21-04 02:55 PM - Post#2562
This is a long one, folks.
Many of us have taken up weight training to improve appearance and/or strength levels. As we have progressed in ability, skill, knowledge, etc. in learning how to 'work the iron' it has been easy to focus on moving that bench press or squat poundage up or to build those arms another inch or reduce that bodyfat level another point or two.
For some of us, like me, this has been a life-long approach. I usually focused on increased strength. I've always been less concerned with appearance than strength and power first for football then for powerlifting. Want someone to run thru a brick wall? I was your guy. And to say I wasn't concerned with appearance is a bit disengenuous. I did take some pride in 'looking' like a guy who could run thru a brick wall well after my competitive days had ended.
Over the years I had also managed to convince myself that cardio work was overrated. Eating reasonably 'clean' and lifting hard more than compensated for not doing direct cardio work. After all, I still played tennis, softball, and volleyball at a fairly high level. Couldn't do that without decent cardiovascular conditioning, right?
So imagine my surprise when in June of 2000 I went to the ER with what I thought was a severe case of indigestion only to find out that I had 95% blockage in four arteries. But I bounced back fairly quickly from the quad bypass and with new 'plumbing' and tidied up dietary habits, I should be good as new.
And, because I'm half an idiot, as time passed I fell back into my old habits -- lifting as heavy as possible and eating 'reasonably clean'. And relegating direct cardio work to something I did if the time available and the inclination happened to coincide.
Then I got what I will call two wake-up calls fairly close together followed by a figurative 2x4 upside the head.
The first alarm and reminder of the importance of cardiovascular conditioning came when Steve K had his heart attack and needed bypass surgery. Communicating with Steve on what happened to him and what to expect post-surgery brought my memories of that time flooding back along with the realization that I hadn't been doing the things I should do.
The 'snooze alarm' went off again on February 5th when I had what is known as a Transient Ischemic Attack (TIA), or in layman's terms a 'mini-stroke'. I woke up that morning unable to get out of bed and then had a hard time walking or talking for most of the day. What happens is that a blockage occurs preventing blood from getting to part of the brain for a while. The blockage then breaks up on its own. In less severe cases, such as mine, the brain 'reconnects' around the dead area. During the post-incident testing process it became apparent that while this one was the most severe, I had had at least two others of which I was unaware.
The net result is that my doc gave me firm orders to lose weight post-haste. "No more screwing around" were his exact words. I've dropped 20 pounds in the last two months.
But the 2x4 upside the head came last week when a good 'gym buddy' died in his sleep at home. Anthony was 47 years old and in great muscular condition -- excellent size and shapes, good definition. He lifted hard (a lot like Dave Draper) and could have stepped on stage with six weeks of dieting he was that good. Very reminiscent of Ed Corney.
He was very interested in my TIA's and over the past six weeks had talked a lot about the cardiovascular system. He told me that he had high blood pressure, couldn't afford the medications to get it down, and that his dietary weakness was ice cream -- eating a pint a night. I found this remarkable given his visual level of conditioning.
Over the last month or so, and from our discussions, he made it a point to get on the treadmill at least 3 times a week and started cutting back on his ice cream.
But it was a case of too little, too late. And sometime the night of April 12, his heart just stopped. His roommate found him when he came home from work and saw messages on the answering machine from Anthony's boss inquiring why he hadn't shown up for work.
Looking at Anthony, you'd never have guessed that he had these internal problems. When he worked out he lifted virtually non-stop. He worked as a welder so his occupation wasn't a sedentary one. His other pasttimes included fishing on the SF Bay (which isn't easy) and hunting in season. He was always on the move and whatever internal problems he had they didn't manifest themselves so as to interfere with his activities.
The message to me -- and what I'm trying to pass on to you -- is not to overlook or relegate to 'second chair' cardiovascular work. For the under-40 crowd recognizing this and acting on it now will help prevent the experiences of mine, Steve's, and Anthony's. For the over 40's cv work is an absolute necessity regardless of you how may look and feel without it. And I'm not talking the type of cv work that supports muscle building efforts. I mean real cv work that gets your O2 uptake to max levels.
Anyway, that's my cautionary tale of the day.
Bill2
"There ain't no fool like an 'old school' fool" |
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Manor
Cool Beans
Posts: 7504
Age: 47
Loc: Limoges, ON, Canada
Registered on 03-31-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 03:13 PM - Post#2563
Bill I couldn’t have said it better myself, I have always tried to include cardio vascular fitness when training and in the past when I have had a long lay off, the first thing I did was get my vascular fitness up to par before I even attempt to go “heavy”. I think you have to build the recovery process first before looking at PRs and so on. Some people call me Dan the cardio man, I only do cardio as necessary (not to be confused with at least as possible) but also as a priority to any training I do. I have naturally high blood pressure (High normal) but 2+ years ago I found out that my blood pressure was through the roof and I was placed on medication ASAP. I was devastated because I never took meds before to “aid” my health and I felt like I let myself down. I decided to do something about it and in a short period of time, I stopped the pills and never looked back. Believe it or not, at the time of my diagnosis, my heart was considered to be as strong as an athlete's, however the vascular fitness is what I had to work on. You can reverse the effects of poor vascular health by proper training as you mentioned. I’m glad you realized it before another 2x4 has to hit you.
Peace brother.
Manor
aka SAVAGE/JDIDAN/Dan the Protein Man
You can't choose your parents however you can choose your lifestyle
Earn your supplements
The most important stack you can do are big plates.- Sweatn |
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Dr.Ken
Strength Coach
Posts: 170
Loc: New York
Registered on 03-30-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 03:31 PM - Post#2564
Bill-especially for those of us over 50 (well, in my case, a lot closer to 60 than 50) this post is extremely meaningful. More importantly, those in their 30s need to read it and accept the fact that optimal health and "bodybuilding appearance" and strength gains come when the body is efficient and healthy. This comes from long term "proper" eating and training. This includes a CV component that can come with a combination of intense weight training and more traditional cv work. But all of us who are fortunate enough to live another day and hopefully, many more "another days", have to work toward that end. No aspect of the big picture should be ignored. I have a congenital platelet aggragation disorder (clotting) that woke me up earlier than most. If you recall my many articles in PLUSA through the late 1970s until I "retired" with Mike's blessing in November of 2000, my programs, which reflected what my trainees did, always included running, biking, or other cv work, which at the time was heretical for PLers. I can recall Hatfield and others telling me how I was doing a disservice to the guys I coached by recommending "so much cv work" or "any cv work". Kathy and I always took the long range approach and the "health and strength for competition" approach. You summed it up better than I could have with your personal perspective. Everyone who reads this and takes it seriously and makes the necessary additions or changes to their lifestyle should thank you.
Dr. Ken
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garyed
aging powerlifter
Posts: 13114
Age: 57
Loc: Minnesota..St.Paul
Registered on 03-30-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 03:47 PM - Post#2565
I will take these posts under serious consideration..I am a "has been" distance runner who started weight training late in life (early 40's) and basically do little to no cardio..My PL numbers are steadily improving and I intend to continue to PL until I just can't hold onto a bar anymore.. he he.. However I am seriously considering dropping from the 220lb class to 198's and I would think that by adding cardio work to my training regimen I could help expedite the weight loss..My intention was to complete the USAPL Master's nationals and perhaps one more major contest this year at 220's..hopefully I will set a MN state record in the squat and increase my current records in the bench and total before I make the "change".. I am hopeful that I can make the change and still mantain or if I lose, regain my current strength levels as well.. This thread is giving me pause to ponder.. for sure
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Barney
IronBear
Posts: 8297
Age: 54
Loc: Central FL from NJ
Registered on 03-30-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 04:27 PM - Post#2566
Bill,
Your post really hit home with me. Like you, I have always been much more interested in strength. Always thought that bodybuilding and cardio were for pansies. But, a couple of recent events have me thinking that there is more to life then strength. A few weeks back, a friend of mine died from a heart attack. He was a year younger then me. And, a couple of months before that, a co worker of my wife had a fatal heart attack during lunch. He was two years younger then me. I have droped about 30lbs since 1996. NOT nearly enough. I could probably lose another 50 [I'm 6'0" and about 270lbs]. So, I just started doing some HIIT cardio on tuesdays and thursdays. I also started back on Dan John's MLB diet AND started recording everything that I eat on Fitday. Next week, I plan on adding some walking to the mix.
Time to get serious! This stuff scares the sh*t out of me. BTW, neither of the above named guys were overweight. Which makes it even more urgent for fellows like us. Just don't expect me to shave my chest and put on one of those itsy bitsy posing trunks lol. Good luck Bill Keyes.
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TKervin
:-)
Posts: 2065
Age: 58
Loc: Portland, OR
Registered on 03-31-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 04:32 PM - Post#2567
Bill,
Very thoughtful post. I have let my cardio slide. I figured that I look pretty o.k., lift hard, have a somewhat physical job, etc. You have reminded me that you cannot "judge a book by its cover". It's what inside that counts. Back to the rowing machine, post haste. Thanks.
Yours in Iron,
Tom
"....'cause she knowed he had a Mercury......" Steve Miller
"Your work is to discover your world and then with all your heart give yourself to it." Buddha
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Bill Keyes
Still Tryin'
Posts: 2320
Age: 58
Loc: SF Bay Area
Registered on 03-26-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 04:34 PM - Post#2568
Quote:
garyed said:
I will take these posts under serious consideration..I am a "has been" distance runner who started weight training late in life (early 40's) and basically do little to no cardio..
Gary, you were one of the people I had in mind when I decided to share this. Us old h.s. runners need to stick together. I want to be swapping stories with you for many years to come. Anthony was a good friend and that post was tough to write properly.
CV disease is so insidious that by the time it makes itself known to people who are strong and powerful it has likely progressed to a significant degree. Looking backwards I had enough signs that there was a growing problem, but at the time I just powered my way past them without examining what was really happening.
The Friday before my Tuesday bypass surgery I had benched 365. The mild back to chest discomfort I felt later that night while outside I attributed to a chill from being in a clammy sweatshirt exposed to a cool breeze. My cardiac guy later said that was a heart attack that was trying to happen. But post-workout I had popped a couple of aspirin. Pure dumb luck.
About a month after my surgery Dave and Laree and I got together. Dave asked me what did I want to do most with my new 'lease on life.' My response was spontaneous and surprised even me. I said that I just wanted to run again like I used to. To simply run for freakin' ever cross-country, fast and sure, powering up the hills and flying down them, streaking across the flats.
*That's* what came into my mind. Not making the big lift, or ripping a wicked line drive that puts the fear of God into the third baseman, or even shedding the center's block and stepping into the hole and absolutely leveling the fullback. I just wanted to run.
Dr Ken, thanks for the endorsement of my sentiments. I don't think Hatfield recognized that you train "athletes", not just "lifters".
And Manor house, keep up the good work. :)
Bill2
"There ain't no fool like an 'old school' fool" |
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Dr.Ken
Strength Coach
Posts: 170
Loc: New York
Registered on 03-30-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 04:58 PM - Post#2569
Gary and Bill (and everyone else): PLers are athletes and that was the point I was making to Fred and others in our long ago conversation. One can be obsessed with the goal of squatting, benching, and DLing more weight. Its a "good" obsession and a worthy goal. However, I believe strongly that if one also adds the cv work to competitive preparation, in the long run and after adaptation, and DESPITE the experts admonitions that one must "train specifically" and "use the same energy systems as their competitive event", being in good cv condition allows one to lift more weight. I believe it because I've seen it too frequently to feel otherwise. My very good buddy, and long time comrade in arms so to speak, Bill Starr, always had the same stance. Bill always had his guys run or play racquetball or do similar work. They would back it off a few weeks prior to the meet which is why the two of us (not wishing to speak for Bill but this is accurate) always felt that meets disrupted normal, productive training, even though you were in fact training for the meets. Bill and his lifters were in excellent "condition", looked great, were super strong, the entire package. Bill's writings, if they are reviewed in total, reveal that he always had a very wide ranging and "overall" perspective and plan of instruction and this is one of the reasons he ranks as one of the best and most accurate and meaningful writers in the sport. He has certainly, other than John McCallum, been the most influential which sounds strange since I am saying that the writings of a friend and contemporary always kept me on what I think has been the correct path. Again, you can have great competitive numbers without screwing up the rest of your health with thought and application. Bill, great post if I can say so again.
Dr. Ken
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Laree
(Rhymes with Marie)
Posts: 21436
Loc: Santa Cruz, CA
Registered on 03-25-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 07:23 PM - Post#2570
Hey, Bill, thanks again for the motivating post. (I *keep meaning* to do my cardio work, lol.)
How's it feel to be 20 pounds lighter? I assume you can still run through a brick wall and all, but do you feel different?
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sharkman
Getting the hang of it
Posts: 47
Age: 49
Loc: California
Registered on 04-01-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 07:27 PM - Post#2571
Bill, simply...THANK YOU.
| Over 40, Not Over the Hill! |
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Andy Mitchell
Factus non verbis
Posts: 4148
Age: 49
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Registered on 03-31-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 07:45 PM - Post#2572
Bill thanks very much. It’s always been a concern for me and your experience sobering.
Bill and Dr Ken; please, if you don’t mind, how much C.V. training is done compared to your strength training in a normal week at present?
I’ve always struggled with how much should be done.
I’ve read that you only need enough to cope with day to day actions. Can I please have your thoughts on this?
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Bill Keyes
Still Tryin'
Posts: 2320
Age: 58
Loc: SF Bay Area
Registered on 03-26-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 08:16 PM - Post#2573
Quote:
Laree said:
Hey, Bill, thanks again for the motivating post...
How's it feel to be 20 pounds lighter? I assume you can still run through a brick wall and all, but do you feel different?
My 'threshhold' of difference seems to be 20 pounds. Up to 19lbs 15 1/2 ozs I look and feel exactly the same. That last 1/2 oz makes all the difference! :)
Seriously, though, I don't 'feel' any different, but I'm pulling the belt over a couple of notches and my wristwatch is flopping around a bit now.
Right now my upper body work is speed, speed, speed. Last night did 32 sets in 31:10 moving 25k lbs. Following Gironda's 10-8-6-15 program. Lower body work is the routine Stella did.
Cardio is three 30 minute treadmill sessions weekly and two or three good old fashioned two mile walks around the neighborhood.
Re the walls, if I were so inclined I think I'd look for old mortar. :O)
Bill2
"There ain't no fool like an 'old school' fool" |
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Bill Keyes
Still Tryin'
Posts: 2320
Age: 58
Loc: SF Bay Area
Registered on 03-26-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 08:27 PM - Post#2574
Quote:
andy said:
Bill and Dr Ken; please, if you don’t mind, how much C.V. training is done compared to your strength training in a normal week at present?
I’ve always struggled with how much should be done.
Right now, I've got a different set of priorities. CV work takes precedence right now. So I'm not the best balance of strength/cv fitness. I'm getting in three timed treadmill sessions a week and 2 to 3 two mile walks a week with differing elevations.
As soon as I shed another 15 pounds I'll be getting some basketball in there. Back in my salad days, full court basketball was my favorite non-football activity as it was fun, enhanced my quickness, and I was pretty good (just too blasted short!).
Bill2
"There ain't no fool like an 'old school' fool" |
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CB
Snakehandler
Posts: 6383
Age: 59
Loc: Springfield, IL.
Registered on 04-01-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 08:36 PM - Post#2575
Words of wisdom from experience that should be heeded. Yearly physical exams with complete blood work after age 40. Annual psa test after 50. A colonoscopy after age 50 are good ideas too.
CB
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Teresa
Sweaty girl
Posts: 4322
Age: 50
Loc: MN
Registered on 03-30-04
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Re: It's Not the Outside that Counts
04-21-04 08:41 PM - Post#2576
Thanks for sharing your experiences. We could all use the figurative 2x4 every now & then. Heart disease doesn't run in my family, but after decades of really low BP, in the past year or so it's really spiked. 130/90 is a good reading for me these days. Figured it was just stress, and that it would go down after life settled down on its own. Will take this more seriously now.
Teresa
| "You will not be carrying around a scale to jump on and show people." - Vicki Masterson
"The following time you better do more or you are dirt!" - Vicki again |
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