06-12-09 10:35 AM - Post#559402    

Gironda's first WO bulletin prescribes dips for pec development but suggests pushups done on pedestals or between benches as a substitute for those who when starting the course lack the strength to start with dips:

“Wide Pec Dips

“Use a parallel bar 33” wide and remember this above everything else – elbows
must be wide and straight out from the shoulders. The head is down chin on
chest and the back rounded forward. The feet are under the face or slightly in
front. Dip as far down as possible and return as high as you can. Never change
this position as this isolates the pectoral muscle and does not bring the triceps
into play as in the elbows back style.

“If you are not strong enough to perform this exercise correctly use the same
head, shoulders, and arm position and place your feet on a high bench or table
and with knees bent and pointed to the floor, perform a wide push up with boxes
or pedestals to place hands on.”



Edited by Jack C on 06-12-09 10:54 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

06-12-09 11:05 AM - Post#559416    

I think that the press to the neck also is a good substitute for the bar dips.

06-12-09 11:27 AM - Post#559427    

I wondered, after reading the description for and trying the Gironda Neck Press, if the same positions (hand and elbow in particular) would translate well to a push-up. I didn't try it, but I guess my question is answered. I would think that doing this push-up elevated would enhance the possibility of injury since there is little if any limitation to range-of-motion, the bar being the limiting factor in the Neck Press. May try it on the floor.

Thanks for posting this.

"He not busy being born is busy dying"--Bob Dylan "The real deal is in the training, the struggle, the perseverance, the self control and the determination."--Dave Draper

06-12-09 12:03 PM - Post#559437    

jdn:

You're wise to be cautious. If you choose to try the pedestal type push up Vince is recommending, I'd advise you to try them using something to elevate your hands 1-2 inches initially. That way, the floor will still provide a reasonable limit to the range of motion. Over time, as your attachments stretch and grow accustomed to the movement...the height may be increased. (But always increase in small increments - it doesn't take much to benefit.)

Wicked

"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in." "Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6

06-12-09 12:09 PM - Post#559438    

Agreed, WW.

"He not busy being born is busy dying"--Bob Dylan "The real deal is in the training, the struggle, the perseverance, the self control and the determination."--Dave Draper

06-12-09 12:12 PM - Post#559440    

A pair of hex DBs is perfect for getting that small elevation off the floor. I use them for pushups to save my wrists, even when not doing extended range of motion work [which I avoid, since it hurts my shoulders]. Any hex DB above 15 pounds or so will work, but bigger is much more stable.

A shrug bar [empty, on the floor] with elevated grip will also work, but you are stuck with the spacing of the elevated grip, which may not suit you. Its a little wide for me.

jej

06-12-09 12:20 PM - Post#559444    

Try a pair of medicine balls - one in each hand. Works stability as well.

You should never drink, and bake. -Arnold in Raw Deal

06-12-09 12:24 PM - Post#559447    

I have a lot of respect for Vince Gironda. That said, while he made an indelible impression on the Iron Game, he was not infallible.

In my opinion, his prescription for chest development - be it the bench press to the neck or
his method of performing dips - carries with it a greater than average chance of injury.

I believe that pectoral hypertrophy can be occasioned through other, less potentially injurious movements.

When I dip, I do so with my elbows in - not flared out. In the down position, my upper arms are no more than parallel to the floor. For me, this has made the move safer.



Stay Healthy, Stay Strong

06-12-09 02:34 PM - Post#559489    

It is also fair to remember that Vince used a barbell as a tool. His lifts were not for power but for appearance. Neck presses are safe with lower weights. He started beginners with 2x8 (not 8x2) for a reason. Wide dips have more injury potential simply because bodyweight exercises do not have an easily modulated load. The wide pushups at a low elevation as described above are safe when done at a measured pace.

Gironda's Substitute for Dips
06-13-09 10:02 AM - Post#559631    

I watched Gironda do wide dips. He never used more then BW at least around me. He would do them very in control. I always keep in the back of my mind DO NO HARM.

It don't matter

Edited by cajinjohn on 06-13-09 10:03 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

Re: Gironda's Substitute for Dips
06-22-09 01:06 PM - Post#561759    

First the neck press works upper chest. The Gironda dips (I love them) work the outer chest and lower chest. Vince always stressed the importance of a wide flared chest look for impressiveness. I take it one step further turning my hands in as Larry Scott teaches in his book Loaded Guns. I really feel this in my outer chest and I feel safe doing it. Dips have always been a natural and easy movement for me so I guess it helps. As for neck presses, yes I agree that it can be unsafe and I have tweaked a few times from it.

08-24-09 01:17 PM - Post#574389    

ahhhh!!!!!!!!!! Thats the ped push up!!!

08-24-09 02:48 PM - Post#574405    

Turning your hands? Larry Scott teaches that? HMMM wonder where he got that?

It don't matter

08-25-09 12:11 AM - Post#574502    

• cajinjohn Said:

Indeed.

What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach.