09-09-08 08:52 PM - Post#481181    

I was wondering if you should be squatting everday w/ this program? And if so maybe front squats on the middle day?

Also on rows should you just do bent rows or switch between bent and 1 arm or something else?

And the same w/ bench, flat bench everytime or flat one day incline the next?

Doing a little something is always better than doing a lot of nothing! If you can't do it. Work harder! Live,Learn,Lift

09-09-08 11:14 PM - Post#481204    

The standard protocol calls for the same 3 exercises every workout (squat, bench, row). Some variations substitute front squat, OHP or incline, and deadlift on the light day. Either way, you should be doing squats 3x week. If you are a beginner, I would stick to just the 3 exercises (squat, bench, bent-over row) 3x a week, but if you want some variation it's OK to make substitutions on the light day. The important thing is that you are following the loading protocol for the squat, bench and row on your medium and heavy days.

My Training Log

09-09-08 11:17 PM - Post#481205    

Also, squatting 3x a week may seem to be a lot, but the key is that you aren't pushing yourself to failure or exhaustion. Again, follow the loading protocol (there are many good spreadsheets for 5x5 floating around) and stay fairly conservative on your 1RM estimates when calculating the loading with the spreadsheet.

My Training Log

09-09-08 11:53 PM - Post#481208    

Hey John,

I've squatted 3x a week before without any problem. It's a matter of watching both your volume and intensity.

Where in the Great State are you?

Rick

Be brief, be brutal, be done.

Re: should you really squat everyday?
09-10-08 12:28 AM - Post#481215    

• John C Said:

The squats follow the heavy-light-medium arrangement that has been used for a real long time. Should you use it? Who knows? It is a real successful program, it has built more strength over the years than so much of the tripe that floats around. But, there is more than one road to Rome; nobody can tell you which is the best route for you. Substituting an exercise on the light day (wed for squats) has been done with success. You could sub front squats on the light day. You just have to be careful because deadlifts are on the same day and if you do both hard, that would be a lot.

• Quoting:

The substitute for the rows is already in there - it is the chins; the sub for the bench is the press. I feel these are MUCH better subs than inclines and db rows would be. The press really balances the shoulder in important ways. In my opinion, db rows are just not even in the same league with chins and barbell rows. But that's me.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

Re: should you really squat everyday?
09-10-08 09:20 AM - Post#481276    

• John C Said:

Heck yes. Well, not EVERY day, but every workout (3x per week). As ccrow said, the program varies your weights and rep/set ranges throughout the week. I disagree with the earlier post that says you're going to exhaustion however. I'm in the middle of my third week and squats do not take me anywhere close to exhaustion. Deadlifts, on the other hand..

• John C Said:

Barbells rule the roost in my book for rows. If you dislike them, change! Just kidding. You could switch them for cleans, but I would consider cleans more difficult (and much more like squats).

• John C Said:

Flat bench. If you truly hate those, the only substitute I'd go with are dummbbell bench presses on a flat bench.

"Mens sana in corpore sano" ---- "Simply being amid the iron and at work is a triumph. You hear the metal, feel its coolness, leverage its gravity and fight the fight. You finish with a smile somewhere on your face and joy someplace in your heart and an ache of fulfillment all over."

09-10-08 09:27 AM - Post#481282    

One of the reasons why trainees fail to achieve desired results is that they are unwittingly sabotaging the program by making well-intentioned substitutions. Starr has "built in" enough substitution in his version of a 5x5 program to ensure all but the most antsy trainee some variety.

Starr said that one of the major problems he had was trying to get the trainee to stick to the program as it was written and not "just adding a set or two of curls" here and there.

Don't make any substitutions unless you have a well-thought out need for them...such as injury or staleness. Get everything you can out of a program as it is written before you make changes.

Wicked

"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in." "Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6

09-10-08 07:29 PM - Post#481543    

What Wicked said.

As a short addition, as someone who's known to write routines here and there himself, I've got something to get off my chest:

A good trainer is going to put a great deal of thought into designing a program. Splits, exercises, sets, reps, tempo, rest intervals, rest days, and progression schemes are juggled to ensure that you'll make progress toward the specific goal of the program.

The fact that you're going to a trainer (or author) is an implicit understanding that he or she knows more about how to get results than you do. If you knew how best to get results, you'd be designing your own program in the first place.

Going to a trainer for a program and then making random, well-intentioned tweaks is a lot like taking your tax return to a CPA and then making random, well-intentioned changes before you send it off to the IRS. Chances are, your changes won't improve anything, and they stand a non-zero chance of making things a whole hell of a lot worse.

Try doing a routine exactly as written, and you have a decent chance at figuring out whether that style of training works for you. Make changes before ever trying it, and when it fails, you have no idea whether it failed because that style of training doesn't work for you or because you suck at writing programs.

All this obviously doesn't mean that you shouldn't question the logic of a program. If a trainer isn't willing to explain why his or her program is laid out the way it is, run. However, once you've gotten that explanation, if you're still at the level where you need assistance in coming up with a program, don't make tweaks that its author doesn't suggest.

The more I eat and the heavier I train, the better my genetics get. If you're not paraplegic and not squatting, please kick your own ass for me." "Do you really think that the reason most guys don't have big arms is purely because of a lack of doing curls?" --Alwyn Cosgrove "There is only one gram of carbs in STFD and no carbs at all in STFU." --Byron Chandler "Use meaningful loads to achieve results." --Big Vic http://www.stoneagefitnessconcepts.com

09-10-08 09:51 PM - Post#481584    

Points well taken every one, thank you. I wanted to be completely sure of what I was doing before I started something new.

Doing a little something is always better than doing a lot of nothing! If you can't do it. Work harder! Live,Learn,Lift

should you really squat everyday?
09-11-08 07:27 AM - Post#481660    

Use the given program as a baseline. If you really and truly are not making progress, you have constants that can be changed one at a time. To do otherwise is to introduce a variable with unknown consequences--your initial changes. Since Starr's programs are so well known, there is most likely someone on IOL who can address your difficulties from their experience.

I had to learn this obvious (though not to me at the time) type of lesson the hard way.