08-13-07 03:23 PM - Post#336699    

Sure, but... you shouldn't necessarily consider this as a good example.

Fitday from June 18 thru August 8:
1,350 calories average
Fat 37%; Carb 36%; Protein 26%
90 grams of protein

Thanks for forcing that review because I'd rather have my protein above 100 grams; Dave would prefer it to be closer to 150, but I'm just not committed enough -- that's hard!

08-13-07 06:47 PM - Post#336808    

• DanMartin Said:

Oh jeez, not colon blow again

08-13-07 07:58 PM - Post#336835    

Tried the Warrior Diet at the beginning of the summer and gained five pounds and two percent bodyfat. Three weeks back on a modified Zone (33/33/33 PCF instead of 30/40/30), and I'm almost back to where I want to be.

I'm always up for a good colon blow.

Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances.

08-13-07 08:52 PM - Post#336860    

Do you figure so many calories per pound and then split it into ratios?

08-14-07 01:27 AM - Post#336934    

• Laree Said:

I reckon i get about that for breakfast... lol.

Best thread ever! :)

08-14-07 11:25 AM - Post#337063    

• Laree Said:

Well first off I definitely think he's right, nothing is conclusive. Of course a unanimous concensus is pretty unusual. (The material he cites actually casts some doubts on frequent meals and the usual 3 squares too!) Much of the research he cites shows that something like 6 meals is better than 3; the important thing to remember is, this doesn't necessarily mean 6 is better than 1, or that intermittent fasts are without value. Again the main thing is there isn't a lot of scientific data on intermittent fasting for human subjects. But, of what little there is, some is pretty encouraging.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

Intermittent Fasting
08-14-07 11:31 AM - Post#337070    

It would seem that total caloric intake, along caloric proportions (protein/fats/carbohydrat es) will always be key.

Mark it Zero.

08-14-07 12:25 PM - Post#337095    

I went through a period last year of fasting one day each week. It was not anything to do with health but for spiritual reasons. I was worried that i might lose muscle or kill my metabolism and make me fat but apart from feeling very hungry and a bit cold on the fasting days i didn't get any physical effects. My weight stayed about the same and i didn't notice any muscle loss.

Best thread ever! :)

08-14-07 12:41 PM - Post#337103    

• ccrow Said:

Byron, I know what you're saying, but I just don't buy it in all cases. Some of you may remember an extreme diet thread from a few years ago when I went ultra-low calorie for a couple of months in an attempt to get to my pre-hysterectomy weight of 124. Didn't get there, not even close. In fact, as I remember it (I'll have to go back and read that thread, but I sure don't want to!), I only lost a couple of pounds before the weight loss stopped.

Others here had more success, so I'm not saying low-calorie diets don't work, but somehow not universally.

I didn't mean to make this thread about *me*... sorry...

08-14-07 01:40 PM - Post#337122    

Well at the risk of being pedantic, you still didn't violate any laws of thermodynamics, your metabolism just slowed down right along with your caloric intake.

I see this as a way to reduce calories without slowing down the metabolism too much, and without a difficult amount of hunger.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-14-07 02:33 PM - Post#337137    

Have any athletes/bodybuilders successfully used intermittent fasting to gain weight, since the body conserves more energy when it's not constantly fed?

"When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good."

08-14-07 02:52 PM - Post#337148    

• Yeti Said:

The one interesting thing is that most folks cut in summer and bulk in winter, when just the opposite would work better.

Mark it Zero.

08-14-07 02:56 PM - Post#337153    

Your right Dan. My problem is my appatite goes way down in the heat of summer.

It don't matter

08-14-07 03:11 PM - Post#337160    

Dr. Michael Eades has a few blog posts on intermittent fasting, too. For your mid-afternoon tuna break:

Fast way to better health

Protein Power verses Intermittent Fasting

Inflammation and intermittent fasting

Aside: I see what you're saying, Byron. Tricky but true.

08-14-07 06:22 PM - Post#337227    

Wow those articles from Eades' blog are excellent! Thanks for posting Laree.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-14-07 06:28 PM - Post#337228    

• Yeti Said:

Some have definitely gained muscle and weight. The ones I've read from did the every other day fast and made up the calories they missed on the fast day, on the feast day. Again, haven't heard of anyone getting hyooog this way. There is some thinking it is helpful for the more squidly among us, hardgainer types.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

Intermittent Fasting
08-14-07 07:25 PM - Post#337241    

• Steve Nye Said:

If that was addressed to me, I count grams for the P/C/F split but keep track of calories. I'm not real anal about the latter though. I'll often binge one day (usually a workout day) and cut way back to make up for it the next.

It all comes out in the end.

Be strong. Be in shape. Be a man among men, regardless of your age or circumstances.

08-14-07 08:20 PM - Post#337258    

• ccrow Said:

At the end of that first one, where he first introduces the idea, he answered a whole bunch of specific questions in the comments section, too.

Earlier today I bought three of the back issues of Robb Wolff's Performance Menu that have his intermittent fasting articles. I'll let you guys know if anything jumps out at me -- he apparently uses IF with musclebuilding athletes. Also, if we have specific questions we could drop him an email and probably get his attention over here.

Here's an article on his site that you may be interested in if you haven't already seen it: We Need More on Ketosis

Re: Intermittent Fasting
08-14-07 10:15 PM - Post#337309    

• AAnnunz Said:

That's pretty much what I do anymore...just curious if I should be watching the calories per bodyweight a little closer.

• AAnnunz Said:

And that's what really matters!

08-15-07 01:04 AM - Post#337341    

• DanMartin Said:

Have you seen results from Colonblow? There are so many competing colon cleansing products on the market, and I'm trying to differentiate one from another. Also, have you considered colon hydrotherapy? A friend of mine who considers himself relatively healthy (generally eats clean, only few cheat meals, but he's not into musclebuilding or fitness) said he was simply amazed at the amount of gunk that came out of his colon when he got colon hydrotherapy done. Not to be too graphic or anything, you know :-)

Regardless of whether you believe you can or cannot, you are correct.

Re: Intermittent Fasting
08-15-07 02:22 AM - Post#337353    

• AAnnunz Said:

Especially after a colon blow session!

Best thread ever! :)

08-15-07 06:50 AM - Post#337380    

Calorie cycling is another angle in this nutrition matrix...

Life's a rock 'n roll Means you keep rocking and rolling, no matter what, no matter how much; while people feel that you have to smash into the rocks and roll into a ditch...

08-15-07 07:39 AM - Post#337390    

• Laree Said:

I have read the first one, I didn't know there were two more. It's worth reading anything by Robb Wolff, he is a real good egg, a great athlete, and a super sharp biochemist.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-15-07 09:07 AM - Post#337444    

'Paleo Pankcakes' -- isn't that an oxymoron?

"When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good."

08-16-07 07:23 AM - Post#337958    

If we would have got together yesterday, we would have such a profound discussion, for I thought on and on for hours on this thing. I want to write so much, but I will focus on two areas today – energy and inflammation.

I have always thought about fasting, and many realities in it are not what science has often portrayed. I do fast a month every year from sunrise to sunset. The rules are to eat a light meal before dawn, no food or water all day (12-14 hours), and break the fast with a light meal at sundown. Anything can be eaten the whole night, with special notice that light meals are advised. We can do any work or activity. Other things to note are no unnecessary talk and no sexual activities.

Personally, I am not a very hearty eater who goes after anything that is not alive. I try to eat a few meals per day, anywhere from two to six, as healthy as I feel to eat, get my fix of the iron (3x per week), with some occasional cardio (3x per month). I had my bloodwork done today, and its in good shape, and also improved from six months past.

With fasting, I have noticed an increase in energy in two days time, without much dip in these two days. In my eatable time, I eat two or three meals maximum. I function very well on little food, and the fast have little effects on training or body weight. I have also put on muscle while burning fat during some of them. Also the need to drink water is much less, so is the sleep required to feel awake.

This takes us to the Sufi saying: eat a lot, drink a lot, sleep a lot, and miss a lot.

One thing I notice is that the food volume is about half of what I eat and I still maintain my body weight. Another thing is feeling very light and agile. I see that the law of thermodynamics don’t really correlate to this time. Or is it about getting more from the food we eat? Nutrition partitioning is an interesting thing to note.

A lot of literature says that this energy comes from freeing the body of its digestion process, but I ask, "where does it come from in the first place?". The energy freed is energy saved from something we maintain thru our food intake and metabolic process, and not energy made by stopping digestion.

If you would examine the people who do hard labour in Asian countries and correlate it to their diet, again thermodynamics is sketchy. They eat two to three triangles (a square cut diagonally), and very little protein. They work hours in the fields. They are not very huge, but with the little they eat and loads of work they do, they don’t shut down nor do they disappear!

I find Cajin's advice of eating what will fill two hands cupped per meal to be very productive. This is because the process of living is inflammatory. Eating produces an inflammatory response, metabolic processes signal inflammation, digestion and assimilation increases heart rate and raises blood pressure - training produces an inflammatory response, work does the same, stress does the same, etc.

The cumulative effect of life brings on degenerative diseases. Now, the family of inflammation has been linked to the entire gamut of metabolic diseases, Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson, loss of nerve function, motor control abilities, vision, renal function, etc.

Males naturally have higher blood pressure, and smaller life spans; men have higher respiration rates, and smaller life spans; men have higher heart rates, and smaller life spans; men have more testosterone and its un-mellow attitude, and smaller life spans; men have bigger statures, and smaller life spans. Some of the items mentioned have a relation to longevity – the question is what correlates to what?

We have modern care to extend our days on the earth, if we want to believe that it relates. But we also have our modern life to shorten our actual availability to do productive things. I also believe that a lot of things have been made safer, and that also relates to more days on the earth. Also many diseases that could take us out in one shot have been controlled, rather that expanding the capacity of the human machine to stay here more days.

I also see that size has something to do with efficiency. We have become like 4x4 vehicles – it takes more to buy, more to fuel, more to maintain, and creates more havoc on the environment; all in the name of transportation. I have seen that bigger people have taxed physiological structure (of the normal person that is) than a person who eat little and has always been little.

Case in point - our blood work today. The little fellas around here who don’t know what physical excersise entails have done very well on the blood test while being unmedicated, while the bigger guys have borderline and exceeding numbers (some of them are ON medication). Both groups are low-active physically.

I understand that we have trained our bodies to take the load of our training and repair, plus to support that musculature and the internal machinery. But at what cost? The active person's question is – do we eat more to build more or do we eat less to live happy? It’s a question of making more out of life!

I see that the active lifestyle means that it takes more resources to maintain. A busy factory needs more infrastructure, how much ever efficient that structure and its workers are.

For the ones who want to eat and remain healthy, I believe that the macro nutrient breakdown, insulin response and total calorie load are the three things to be considered. I see it as making the most bang for the buck, while at the same time keeping the damage down. When we look at the nutritional angle for control of metabolic diseases (or the anti aging thingy), we find that the strategies are two fold – to keep the inflammatory damage on the body down and to increase its functional abilities.

Also the foods recommended start to come under certain types (low GI carbs, fiberous foods, natural, lean protein, low animal food intake, healthy fats, etc).

This brings us to the inflammation angle. I think this to be very important.

Six meals means six little thorns of an inflammatory response and recruitment of body's metabolic pathways, with the related barrage of goodies and baddies related to metabolic function, while three bigger meals means three screws of the same response. I feel different on both protocols, but like it that I don’t have food in me all time. As for energy levels, I believe that the body learns pretty much anything. Blood sugar crashes happen when the body is not efficient in using the fat stores as and when needed (what else are they for?), or the food volume was high, or that a particular sugar spike was high.

I am awake more when my body is burning fat, than piling it – even during a normal non-fasting day.

I have discussed enough non-scientific things interspersed with scientific things. Now to fly out of this loop…

I was once in a village deep inside India where there was no electricity or running water, no telephone lines, and not much transport options. The life was simple – get up with the sun, eat a simple break fast, tend to the fields, tend the cattle, shower, lunch, do nothing much till the end of the day, dinner and sleep a little after sunset. All this food would be about two meals of what I would eat in a day here, and the work is about same effort as I put for my training and other sundries, but the body and mental load is 1/10 of what I have usually.

The first two days, I was frigging lost, finicky, worried and fidgeting – just because I didn’t have anything to keep myself busy than meet people; no work, no mental garbage, no phones, no emails. By day three I was relieved, relaxed and became calm. I tasted a little serenity and internal calm. I noticed the people unhurried, unworried, unbothered. Those guys are hearty and healthy, I lost five pounds in a week. This brings me to the effects of our modern living; its plate full.

This also looks the effect of mental tranquility in effecting the important blood serum factors. Have anyone noticed the medical bills of the explosive personalities? I have seen some, they are mainly blood pressure, diabetes, elevated heart rate, high lipids, immune problems, etc.

Have anyone thought about the effects of the rock, jazz and pop in everything? Am I going off tangent here?

Not exactly, as these things have also been studied, and the internal responses aren’t very tranquil.

Health may be effected by taking care of the basics first and getting down to the nitty gritty later, but good health is cellular in nature.

Live life to the fullest – physically, mentally, spiritually…

Luv 'n light
Subeer

Life's a rock 'n roll Means you keep rocking and rolling, no matter what, no matter how much; while people feel that you have to smash into the rocks and roll into a ditch...

08-16-07 08:16 AM - Post#337988    

GREAT post Subeer, I love it!

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-16-07 08:17 AM - Post#337989    

PS, every time the word "thermodynamics" is used here, a high school teacher somewhere gets a migraine they can't explain.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-16-07 11:06 AM - Post#338073    

Subeer, you're thinking at double your age, buddy. You've pre-done your mid-life crisis.

Excellent post.

08-16-07 11:45 AM - Post#338098    

• Subeer Said:

Great post, Subeer. I just wanted to comment on this part because I think a lot of people don't realize that the body can only handle so many stresses before things start malfunctioning. Just waking up in the morning is stressful; cortisol is high. Most people drink a pot of coffee, raising cortisol even further. Eat a big plate of food with that coffee and you induce an insulin response even though you already have antogonist hormones circulating around that promote mobilization of energy rather than storage. Seems like fasting in the morning may be particularly beneficial to allow the body to deal with stress without the extra burden of food.

"When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good."

08-16-07 12:39 PM - Post#338132    

"After monitoring my blood sugar levels each day for months and months, I noticed repeating patterns. You will too, if you monitor your sugar levels closely and record them in a journal. One thing I noticed is the effect of skipping meals. Now, diabetics who take insulin or other medications cannot skip meals because of the risk of hypoglycemia (low blood sugar). However, Type II diabetics WHO ARE NOT ON INSULIN OR MEDICATION generally have HIGH blood sugar rather than low. The risk of low blood sugar levels is very low in these individuals. When I skipped meals I felt hungry, but my blood sugar levels went down - sometimes all the way to the normal range! At the same time, my energy level was higher and I did not suffer the ups and downs that a typical person experiences as the day progresses. Having heard all the traditional advice about eating a hearty breakfast, not skipping meals, and breaking meals up into more frequent but smaller helpings, I was reluctant to believe the new data. However, facts are facts, and I decided to cautiously explore this further."

Here's the rest of the personal testimonial from a guy named Lee Shurie who cured his diabetes by fasting. I'm not sure if "cured" is the correct word; he uses the word "defeated."

08-16-07 12:57 PM - Post#338138    

Another link out this morning: Discussion over at Robb Wolf's forum on the Alan Aragon article we talked about above.

08-16-07 09:15 PM - Post#338302    

• Subeer Said:

I agree. Although I like some rock and popular music, I find that JS Bach, Mozart, etc. are much more soothing and uplifting as well. I am not a spiritual person but JS Back sometimes makes me wonder, like no other composer can do.

08-19-07 02:26 PM - Post#339324    

• Laree Said:

I found another answer to this question -- Dr. Herring, the guy who wrote the Fast5 Diet book, has a yahoogroups site and has been asked about the Warrior Diet there.

I quote Dr. Herring here,

"As you describe, it [The Warrior Diet] calls for two phases, underating and overeating in a 24-hour cycle. During the undereating phase, according to his [Ori Hofmekler] 2001 edition, the following are permitted:

Raw foods, a small amount of lean protein, a handful of raw almonds, or Warrior Growth Serum, a proprietary colostrum-based supplement. Hofmekler also says NOT to go over 18 hours in the undereating phase. In the overeating phase, he says to "start with subtle tastes","eat until more thirsty than hungry", and "rotate eggs, chicken, red meat, and fish to avoid allergies." Hofmekler forbids refined sugar and "refined, processed pastries." The diet, he says, offers protection against radiation (no reference given) and is based on differences in activities of the sympathetic nervous system and the parasympathetic nervous system.

In the years since its publication, the Warrior Diet has evolved through practice and hearsay (and perhaps Hofmekler has changed later editions) to become "warrior style," popular in the fitness community and very similar to Fast-5, which is geared toward weight loss. In practice, most of the Warrior Diet's rules were dropped because they really didn't matter. Fast-5 was developed with timing as the only rule, and the similarity in outcome is an example of parallel evolution: that which works survives.

No one at this point can say what amount of intake starts to diminish the benefits of IF. Because of that, my view is that if works for you, stay the course. If you're wanting to maximize the longevity benefits, it seems likely that the smaller the intake and the longer the fast (up to 36 hours) the better, provided adequate nutritional quantity and quality is maintained. I don't follow your logic on adding fat to the body so it burns more of what it has [he's referring here to the original poster's comment that he uses cream in the mornings to coerce his body into burning more fat], but I encourage people to stick with what works in their individual circumstances."

Here is his yahoogroups homepage.

08-19-07 07:52 PM - Post#339433    

Here's one for the smart guys: Alternate Day Fasting (ADF) (attached pdf below).

From the CONCLUSIONS section, we find:

"Findings to date from both human and animal experiments indicate that ADF may effectively decrease the risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD), whereas results from animal studies suggest a protective effect on cancer risk. In terms of diabetes prevention, animal data suggest a beneficial effect, but human data have been equivocal. However, it is important to note that the human studies examined in this review are limited; they all lacked control groups and used short trial lengths. Future studies with longer trials and including control groups are needed to answer these important questions.

The effect of ADF regimens in insulin-resistant or diabetic populations also should be determined, because they could help to clarify the role of ADF as a treatment for preexisting diabetes rather than as a protection against diabetes.

Moreover, human ADF trials in modestly overweight persons, who are at greater risk of chronic disease, are warranted. In this context, it is important to note that the control animals in both the calorie restricted (CR( and ADF studies are likely to have been obese, because they were fed ad libitum.

ADF regimens also may be as efficacious as daily CR in improving certain indexes of risk of type 2 diabetes and CVD, although the number of studies directly comparing the 2 regimens is small. Further analysis of the mechanisms responsible for beneficial effects of ADF is clearly warranted, particularly if these effects occur in the absence of negative energy balance.

Novel mediators and therapeutic strategies may thereby be uncovered. Finally, it seems intuitively likely that persons will find it easier to fast or reduce intake on alternate days than to reduce their intake every day. For this reason, ADF regimens may allow better compliance than would CR regimens and may represent an attractive area for investigation.

It will also be important to understand whether the mechanisms by which ADF protects against chronic disease risk are similar to those of CR. Indirect evidence suggests that the 2 regimens may share mechanisms.

In summary, this still nascent literature suggests that ADF may effectively modulate metabolic and functional risk factors, thereby preventing or delaying the future occurrence of common chronic diseases, at least in animal models. The effect of ADF on chronic disease risk in normal-weight human subjects remains unclear, however, as do the mechanisms of action. Much work remains to be done to understand this dietary strategy fully."

08-19-07 08:58 PM - Post#339456    

Reading this topic It sort of fits if you view mother nature as disorganized chaos in that the heart beat is not constant, we lose and gain muscle, fat water through the course of the day.
Some days I go without food, I feel good.

Nice legs-shame about the face

08-20-07 01:15 PM - Post#339698    

Dave asked if I could have some aminos first thing in the morning (yes, I told him I was fasting a little, after he didn't notice the first week and a half, lol), so I wrote Dr. Herring, the author of Fast 5 to ask. Here's his response; I quote in full:

Fast-5 is a tool that people use however it suits them. For some that means not at all, because they have no need for such a tool, or because they prefer a different tool. Others pick up the Fast-5 tool and modify it to suit them. That may mean cream in coffee, or a shorter eating window. What you choose to do is up to you, and you can find out for yourself whether a teaspoon of amino acids makes a difference. People are different, so testing it yourself is the only way to really find out what matters for you.

If you are pursuing Fast-5 for weight loss, then what really matters is whether or not you are losing weight, and continue to lose weight if you take the amino acid supplement, not how strictly you adhere to what I've written in the book. If you're seeing steady weight loss using Fast-5 and want to try the supplement, there's no harm in in trying. If it triggers limbic hunger, and you find yourself breaking your fast earlier than you plan, or having less will power to resist eating temptation, then you can see it's impede your progress and you may decide you're better off without it, at least until you reach your goal. If, on the other hand, it does not trigger limbic hunger, and it offers you or your spouse some reassurance that you won't lose muscle tissue, then you carry on with it and continue to your goal, having adapted the Fast-5 tool to suit your lifestyle and preferences.

If you're pursuing Fast-5 for the possible longevity and health benefits, then no one knows how much eating during the low-insulin period makes a difference. It's hard for me to imagine a teaspoon of amino acids making a difference, but I can't say for sure either way.

The best way I know of to avoid muscle tissue loss (in any eating schedule, fasting or conventional) is to use them. So, as the book says, exercise is recommended, and the more variety, the better for your whole body's muscle tone.

Free amino acids have calories, 4-6 kcal per gram depending on which amino acids are in the mix. There is a mix of amino acids constantly circulating in the bloodstream to supply maintenance needs, and there is no evidence of muscle catabolism (breakdown) in the short-term 19 hour fast of the Fast-5 program. No study I know has demonstrated muscle catabolism before 48 hours of fasting have elapsed in a nutritionally stable, otherwise healthy person. After weeks of extreme conditions, yes, but not after 19 hours with regular, nutritionally adequate meals daily.

I believe much of what you hear about muscle breakdown comes from marketers of supplements who want you to feel like your body's going to self-digest if you go more than a few hours without consuming their product so they can funnel money from your account to theirs. I should add that amino acids are the components of protein that have been broken apart, usually by acid or enzymes. Your stomach contains both acid and protein-cutting enzymes, so almost all the protein you eat becomes amino acids (or short chains of them) before being absorbed by your body. So, an amino acid supplement is protein that's been pre-digested, something your stomach is well-equipped to do.

My best wishes for your success,

Bert
Fast-5 LLC

unquote

Intermittent Fasting
08-20-07 05:14 PM - Post#339770    

WOW!!! Was that interesting. Thanks Laree for taking the initiative.

I've been doing the Fast 5 pretty strictly for 5 days now. Weight is falling off. After the second day I haven't notice any problems with energy for my daily work nor the gym. Hunger disappeared after the third day. I do eat two egg whites at about 1 in the afternoon along with much water. I maintain a pretty strict Zone menue at night. A bombers blend drink with my meal adds the additional protein I want.

I did adjust my training so I eat within about an hour after working out.

Art

Edited by Art V on 08-20-07 05:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

08-20-07 06:40 PM - Post#339787    

Good stuff, thanks for posting that Laree. Herring's response reminds me of something in one of the Eades blog entries posted earlier:

• Michael Eades Said:

These two responses are pretty direct and to the point, and they agree with what people are finding - muscle wasting just doesn't seem to be a problem.

If you trust bodyfat tests, you could use those to monitor this, but for me, I just watch what's happening in the gym. If I doing well with the weights, I think it's safe to assume I'm not wasting muscle. I hit some PRs doing three fast days a week (with less-than-ideal training) so I am satisfied it isn't a problem for me.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-20-07 07:33 PM - Post#339802    

" I hit some PRs doing three fast days a week (with less-than-ideal training) so I am satisfied it isn't a problem for me. "

Byron, I'm curious. Were you totally fasting..no food or doing a IF style fast?

Art

08-20-07 07:36 PM - Post#339803    

Art, it was no food until after work mon-wed-fri (plus occasionally a sat or sun).

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-20-07 09:30 PM - Post#339854    

• DanMartin Said:

My sister just got back from a second trip to your country, which I'm envious over; S.F, NY, Canada. She couldn't believe the size of the meals, for example your entree is the size of our main.

Nice legs-shame about the face

08-20-07 09:37 PM - Post#339856    

• Andy Mitchell Said:

Just one of the reasons it's such a freak show over here.

08-20-07 09:38 PM - Post#339857    

• Andy Mitchell Said:

She should see Texas. They just line everyone up at the trough; hose 'em off when they're done.

"When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good."

08-20-07 09:54 PM - Post#339861    

• Yeti Said:

Sounds like the truckstop.

08-20-07 11:39 PM - Post#339892    

Yeti, roflmao...."She should see Texas. They just line everyone up at the trough; hose 'em off when they're done.'

Reminds me of the time my wife and I were just outside of Ft. Worth. The hotel we stayed at had a nice dinner bar set up. It was a monster. I told here how Texas was over sized about everything. She excused herself to go to the bath room and took a wrong turn and fell in the pool....when she regained the surface she started yelling..."Don't flush it! DON'T flush it!"

Art

08-21-07 04:02 AM - Post#339914    

Lol. Art!

Best thread ever! :)

08-21-07 09:33 AM - Post#339985    

This thread, along with some of the other recent similar ones really goes to show how much balloney i've swallowed from the likes of mens health and most every other fitnes article. all this stuff about your muscles are going to shrink if you don't eat every 3-4 hours. Yet here we see that you can fast for 19 hours on a regular basis, keep or even gain strength and lose weight while improving your chances of having a 90th birthday.

It's really challenging the traditional thoughts i've allways had about diet.

Best thread ever! :)

08-22-07 06:34 PM - Post#340695    

• Laree Said:

Dr Bert Herring, author of Fast 5, comments on the Aragon column:

"References 17 and 18 are cited, saying basically that every-other-day fasting and once-a-day eating are impractical because people may not like it. The author does not include, for example, that in reference 18, the people in the study lost 4% of their fat mass in 22 days, their fat metabolism went up by 6 grams per day, and their resting metabolic rate, despite all "everyone" says about it dropping with fasting, did not change from baseline."

Continue reading his evaluation here.

Intermittent Fasting
08-22-07 06:38 PM - Post#340698    

This thread has been very intriguing to me, as I've read varying opinions on meal timing and frequency in the past. For example, proponents of paleo-style eating will say periods of feast and famine is the most "natural" way and that following a conventional meal schedule completely disrupts cycles evolved for survival. Some of the data on intermittent fasting improving blood lipid profiles would seem to support the paleo philosophy. Food-induced inflammation is kept to a smaller part of the day.

On the other hand, some fitness gurus recommend eating on a time clock, where you feed the body at predictable times, you get predictable results, and perhaps most importantly, you learn how to manipulate your hormones optimally. For example, you eat breakfast at 7, lunch at 11, another meal at 3, dinner at 7, repeat. You never get too hungry but you never overindulge, and as long as you're not eating the wrong foods for your body, you'll probably be just as healthy as you would by regular fasting, right, as long as inflammation is kept at bay? Or is that assuming too much?

The only big difference I see between fasting and frequent controlled feedings is you either train your metabolism to be slow or fast. So does a faster metabolism cause one to age faster? Is that the main tradeoff, deciding whether it's more important to look good now or to age gracefully?

Just asking some stupid questions to stir the pot...

"When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good."

Edited by Yeti on 08-22-07 07:18 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

08-22-07 07:10 PM - Post#340709    

In an effort to keep our thoughts together, let's link this thread with Byron's original post about Fast5, dating back to April 4, 2007: Short Fasts.