First Things First

08-09-07 07:38 AM - Post#334622    

When I heard about the Warrior Diet, something didn't sound right. The plan was basically eat very little all day and eat everything you want at night. We all know people who do this and this is usually an example of how not to diet. Still a couple things kept me from dismissing it completely: time savings, and a lot of positive testimonials.

So, I look into it a little more. The book sucks. Long on silly filler, short on science and specific instructions. But, it's a Dragon Door product, and that company has such a following that they could put out a Manure and Maggots diet and their devotees would be clamoring about how it cleared up their acne, cured their back problem, and made them taller. (PS, the Dragon Door crowd tends to be strong but skinny, not a real muscular crowd.)

Anyway, there's only one way to find out for sure, so I try it, and aside from saving time it did nothing good for me.

Now time goes by and here and there I start hearing about what people are calling intermittent fasting which the Warrior Diet is close to. The Fast Five book is in my opinion much better than the Warrior Diet - more science and practical instructions.

I have had some pretty good results doing the Fast Five thing Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. I fast all day, then after work have a preworkout shake (Gatorade, whey, and BCAAs). Then I go to the gym, warm up, do some short intense cardio, then hit the weight pile - 60 - 90 minutes. Then afterwards a nice dinner - not junk, but not strict either - yes, I have a potato AND dessert

Then the rest of the week I just eat a healthy balanced diet. If I don't work out on Saturday I might fast Sunday too. Doing this I have been able to hit some PRs in the gym (for cardio and weights), feel good, shed some fat, and save some time.

I don't think it would turn out so great when I'm working out more, or if I was focused on gaining weight. It's a good fit when time is short.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-09-07 07:45 AM - Post#334626    

THanks for that link Byron - although I like eating too much to push myself into the long fasts, I read through a lot of the book and there's loads of interesting, scientific explanations which are easy for a non-scientific person to understand (I like the parts on the different types of hunger, for example).
Maybe one day...

Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined. Henry David Thoreau

08-09-07 08:04 AM - Post#334634    

Rosie, if you do try it at some point I think you may be pleasantly surprised that it isn't very hard.

I am one of those people that, if I skip breakfast, I am not as hungry when lunchtime rolls around. On the fast days I usually get hungry for a short while around 1:00 then it passes and I'm fine, even if work runs late that day.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-09-07 08:19 AM - Post#334638    

Byron,

Interesting stuff.

I read a review, some time back on the "Warrior Diet". I never attempted it, nor did I buy the book.

I have been interested in fasting for some time, as a way of controlling weight and also for the health benefits. Notice, I said interested in, not a practitioner of.

I have read a lot of the writings of Paul Bragg and believe he makes a compelling case for fasting.

I have long planned to fast one day a week. The fast would begin, say, from Sunday after dinner to breakfast on Tuesday. It would be a water only fast. Assuming eating remained constant on the other days, I think this could be quite efficient. I do not think that it would interfere with my training.

I have never undertaken this program. Though I believe it would be worthwhile, at the moment of truth, I rationalize my way out of doing it. "I'll start this next year" I tell myself. That tomorrow has yet to come.

I have known two people who have done this sort of thing. One was a physical education professor in college. At around 50, she looked absolutely spectacular. The other person, also a woman, looked great and incredibly youthful as well. She was in her 40's.

I think for many of us - weight trainers that is -there is a fear of things like fasting, cardio, etc. I know that at times I have harbored those fears. There is that voice in the back of my head saying "you'll get small and weak".

Thinking rationally, I believe that after many years of weight training, lifting and looking as if I lift has become part of my identity. I don't want to cling to that identity to my detriment. I recall Dr. Ken saying something to the effect of -who cares how much you can bench if you are in the cemetery?

Do I want to maintain strength, even gain? Absolutely. However, if I can undertake a few things to safeguard my health, as best I can, I believe I should do it.

I simply have not started fasting one day a week out of weakness. I hope one day to overcome that. I believe the benefits would be worth the effort.

In any event, interesting stuff.

08-09-07 08:28 AM - Post#334648    

I recently tried the Warrior Diet, more specifically his 'anti-estrogenic' diet and found that as the weeks went on my evening meal became larger and larger. I didn't have much energy or motivation for my workouts either.

Trying this for just a couple days per week sounds like it might be a better approach for me, may have to give it another try in Sept.

Thanks for the info and link.

She wasn't good but she had good intentions. Lyle Lovett.

08-09-07 08:56 AM - Post#334676    

• Quote:

ROTFLOL, I like your sense of humor, ccrow.

I read the fast five book when it was first posted here. I recall the author claims there's initial period of about 2 weeks for the body to settle in with kethosys. don't you diminish that affect with doing it 3 days/week rather than continuosly?

08-09-07 09:33 AM - Post#334701    

Hey anybody that wants the Warrior Diet book, I'm selling' it real cheap, for say... fitty cent! I'm not kidding, I actually boneheaded it and bought this paperweight some years back!

The only thing "Warrior" abut it is you could fling it at someone if you were really desperate to defend yerself and it might give you a chance to run for the hills!! But then, that wouldn't make you much of a Warrior would it?! ;>)

Age: 59

08-09-07 09:44 AM - Post#334704    

On the intermittent fasting and meal order note:

Charles Atlas (Angelo Siciliano) used to have a very light breakfast...something like a lemon squeezed in hot water. Lunch was be light, also...a salad, maybe? Dinner would be his big meal...where he would eat things like steak or chops and a soup, salad or both.

This apparently, worked well for him...until he was older. To be blunt...he got fat (comparatively speaking.) He blamed his love of Italian foods. The meal order may have had something to do with it.

The old adage is to have breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and dinner like a pauper.

Regarding fasting...fasting for a day once a month or even once a week, certainly doesn't hurt you. It may even benefit you - if only to exercise the self-discipline necessary to do it.

Wicked

"I'm in good shape for the shape I'm in." "Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me." John 14:6

08-09-07 09:47 AM - Post#334706    

Portion control will always matter.

Cognosco, Sudo, Rideo Celebrate optimum, not maximum. I am just a pawn in the game of life.

Intermittant Fasting
08-09-07 09:56 AM - Post#334715    

• Wicked Willie Said:

The only problem with that adage in practice is that you'll want to go back to bed after breakfast, take a nap after lunch and probably drink yourself to death after dinner...which I guess is fine if you really are royalty.

I think it's better to eat heavy when you have a lot of time to devote to rest. That's why the old European style of eating a light breakfast and spending several hours at the dinner table with good company always appealed to me.

"When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good."

Edited by Yeti on 08-09-07 10:00 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

08-09-07 10:17 AM - Post#334722    

Yeti,

I too find it appealing to eat heavy and then rest. I resist doing it because I believe it is not healthful. This study may shed some light:

http://www.cbass.com/Everymealcounts.htm#And

It is probably best to get in some activity - light activity, after a meal.

Additionally, eating a heavy meal and then lying down my exacerbate acid reflux.

I have to go with the adage Wicked stated. I think it is probably the most healthful approach. Maybe not the most pleasurable, but the most healthful.

08-09-07 10:18 AM - Post#334724    

When bulking keep this in mind: Eat until sleepy, sleep until hungry.

Cognosco, Sudo, Rideo Celebrate optimum, not maximum. I am just a pawn in the game of life.

08-09-07 11:22 AM - Post#334744    

• Traveler Said:

I'll agree with that. I usually eat a pretty hearty breakfast every day, even though I can only down so much food in the morning. About two hours later i've already logged in a couple miles of walking, from commuting to work to doing my daily duties at the office, which doesn't involve sitting at a desk. This is light activity. What I wouldn't advocate is exercising right after a meal, when the body's chief concern is digestion. The body can't multitask; start exercising and you put the body in sympathetic mode, your body starts using stored energy; whatever you ate thirty minutes ago is useless. That's why I've never understood why some people will carb up before a workout. Eat, wait a couple hours before exercising. Looking at that study you posted, the subjects did wait 2 hours before exercising.

For me, it's impossible to get enough total calories for the day by making breakfast the biggest meal of the day. The body just isn't particularly hungry in the morning. If I were overweight, this might be the best appoach, but I'd rather feel satisfied after a long day of activity by eating heartily in the evening rather than starving myself.

I've read that in Roman times people would often only eat bread in the mornings (that's all they could afford), then work long hours. At night they would eat a big dinner (though probably not as big as today's average meal) where they would replenish their stores for the next day. I'm willing to bet nobody had heart disease back then, except the rich who ate frequently.

"When [defeat] comes, I won't even notice. I'll be too busy looking good."

Re: Intermittant Fasting
08-09-07 04:11 PM - Post#334963    

My late FIL use to eat just like that. He would get up and be at work by 5am .. work to 6pm without eating a thing .. be home by 7pm and eat non stop til bedtime. And he never weighed more then 160 lb soaking wet.

Peace ~ Bear BearzDen ~ It is what it is! ~

08-09-07 04:13 PM - Post#334970    

Barney, was he "skinny fat" or toned/muscular?

Of all the things ive lost,I miss my mind the most. http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals .html?Owner=jamie%28IRL%29

08-09-07 04:18 PM - Post#334974    

• Jamie(IRL) Said:

He was just a skinny guy. His arms were fairly muscular, however, from years of manual labor.

Peace ~ Bear BearzDen ~ It is what it is! ~

08-09-07 04:46 PM - Post#335012    

I think there are things you have to re-think with this type of diet. When you're eating smaller, more frequent meals, a good rule is to eat for what you're going to be doing for the next few hours. Activity after your meals is a big deal.

But with this diet I don't think it is a problem eating one meal a day at night. If you're going to do something like this one-meal- a- day plan, you are going to deliberately spend time running off stored energy. The muscle mag mentality is that this is a bad thing because you'll burn muscle.

But, if you are ever going to lose any fat, you're going to have to burn some stored energy! So you have to get over that. Also, you have to believe that what muscle gets used for energy is rapidly replenished, it is only a very temporary loss. I have spoken to a fair number of people and really there just doesn't seem to be a problem losing muscle when eating this way.

I personally am convinced that burning stored energy sources is a good thing. I think it will lower blood sugar (even on the regular-diet days) improve insulin sensitivity, lower triglycerides, lower LDL and improve HDL, and burn bodyfat.

The human body was not made for this land of plenty where it never goes hungry!

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-09-07 05:31 PM - Post#335032    

• ccrow Said:

Thats what I continue to think when I go about or hear people talk about the 6 meal a day thing.

Truthfully, I rarely follow the 6 meal a day thing. I find that Im not hungry every three hours.

Its strange that there is such a wide spectrum to the nutrition world. Athletes seem to follow very different eating plans, ranging from 6-8 small meals daily, cutting and bulking periodically, to eating one or two meals a day. Many fighters still follow the classic three meal a day diet.

You know what? Im beginning to think that theres too much hype around nutrition, that we worry too much about it. Also, I am beginning to think that we compensate not enough time in the gym (lets face it, bodybuilding tends to not be too intense) with calorie counting etc. Finally, I am starting to think that it is not the amount of food we eat that matters, but the type of food we eat. Its probably no big deal or knew news, but its a revelation for me.

Of all the things ive lost,I miss my mind the most. http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals .html?Owner=jamie%28IRL%29

08-09-07 07:41 PM - Post#335088    

This is pretty intriguing to me, too. I'm one who literally trained myself to eat breakfast after decades of disinterest in food in the morning. Dave convinced me that was wrong; guess I'd have to sneak this one by him. :~)

08-10-07 03:42 PM - Post#335556    

So... I skipped breakfast this morning and had some cottage cheese mixed with Bomber Blend for lunch. Easy peasy. Byron, do you think there's any value in regular -- maybe even daily -- 14-hour fasts? Or do you think it takes the full 19 to be valuable?

Also, I'm not clear on the difference between this and the Warrior Diet -- are these the same, just written up differently?

08-10-07 04:24 PM - Post#335591    

The Warrior Diet is very vague about eating "a little" during the day, which I suspect is a point of failure for many. I think there is probably a lot of individual variation in how strict you have to be all day, and how long you have to fast.

I keep in mind that almost everyone fasts for 8-10 hours a day overnight

I am also sure that not every day is alike, you're more active some days than others, you come in with energy store fuller on some days than others.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-10-07 04:25 PM - Post#335592    

Couple other things to throw out there. One thing to watch out for: easy on the caffeine on the fast days! The body produces a fair amount of epinephrine on the fast days, and most people notice they are surprisingly energetic. Some people even notice better mental acuity, and I think there is something to it.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-10-07 04:29 PM - Post#335595    

Another thing about the intermittent system: the idea is NOT to eat all the calories you didn't eat during the day at dinner! You'll feel great with a nice dinner, doesn't have to be a feeding frenzy. The in between days, it seems like people get good results eating maintenance calories or slightly more, but clean.

The most important test a lifter has to pass is the test of time. -Jon Cole

08-10-07 04:41 PM - Post#335609    

• ccrow Said:

Bingo.

Cognosco, Sudo, Rideo Celebrate optimum, not maximum. I am just a pawn in the game of life.

08-10-07 05:17 PM - Post#335638    

I too only eat when hungry, 2 times per day, around 10:30am and 7:30pm.

Ironically my goal is to gain weight, muscle that is.

I believe that my body will operate more efficiently now with 2 meals, burn fat better, and due to having the food assimilate and digest better, the increase in muscle mass will accelerate.

T