Dave Draper’s Musclebuilding Q&A

Just found out on visit to orthopedic surgeon (rotator cuff surgery on other shoulder is now due–cartilage damage) that I have a torn biceps tendon. Is it safe to work out with this?

So sorry. I’ve had similar injuries and the surgeon did not suggest physical therapy, expecting I was better equipped to determine the course of repair. I’m sure there is a workout scheme you can follow to soothe the beast within. I would not make any recommendations — too risky.

You, with your wisdom and commonsense and pain signals and madness, are the best instructor and guide. Take it easy,  stealth training, warming up lots, partial movements, low-exertion… eat right, rest, heal… Godspeed… Dave

While I was benching, I had a complete tear (2.6cm) of my right rotator cuff (supra spinatus). My Ortho Physician will repair it shortly. In your experience, do people regain adequate strength and resume benching after such a procedure?

I’ll give you 10 to 1 odds the bench press was the cause of the injury.

Advice: Nix the bench press. Go dumbbells for growth and strength and health. Incline DBs suggested for power shoulders and avoidance of excess lower pec development.

You’re good, if you’re young and smart (not my age and dumb)… easy does it…

Be strong and courageous… Godspeed… Dave

My shoulder is wrecked, so I’m doing six Tylenol Extra Strength a day…put on this capsazin stuff…good analgesic…no weights now…90-minute aerobic sessions every day…and eating a lot of protein. I figure a good rest from the iron while maintaining my weight will bring me back stronger when my body has healed.

So sorry to see this.

Do whatever movements you can for whatever muscle tissue you can — in creative positions, mild weight, abbreviated motions, wisely stabilized, much warm-up, extraordinary focus and stimulate with lovable effort. I don’t like stopping the iron action unless I’m unconscious.

Modestly stretch the area and seek healthy shoulder movement. Dumbbells and single pulleys work best for isolation and custom groove-invention; partial curls, partial one-arm rows, mild shrugs, single cable forward-leaning crossovers for pecs and associated tissues, minimal flat dumbbell presses or some bar-only trial lockouts from a flat bench and racks. Work legs on appropriate machines for obvious reasons and to assure systemic growth.

You, the injury, the pain and the iron have got to work it out. Rest and attitude and good eats are invaluable. Don’t overload on the over-the-counter assists. Bad for the tummy. Don’t overload on the aerobics. You’ll disintegrate and dissolve simultaneously. Above all, talk to God, the Great Healer.

The B-69 Bomber, AKA The Irontasauras   (pronounced i-ron-ta-sor’-as)

I am 62, going in for shoulder re-surfacing due to arthritis from heavy training in my younger years. What exercises can I do after the surgery for shoulders, chest, arms ? Any & all help would be greatly appreciated.

You’ll work your way through recovery and it’ll become clear pretty soon. Your  doctor will guide you.

I would be forward looking to the basics, eventually, with those handy dumbbells and not the rigid bar, and much lighter weights with sufficient muscle-exertion and tons of form and focus. Mild pressing will come after healing and shoulder health is certain, and a new training style will emerge.

Here’s how I did it: Return after shoulder surgery.

Be strong internally and courageous, and make this your last major injury and repair.

Go … Godspeed… Dave

I have hurt my shoulder…again!  Not sure exactly what the problem is but trying to sort out some ART. In the meantime, can you recommend any exercises to maintain my upper body mass as I am terrified of losing all I’ve built. It is mostly front deltoid pain, but also some medial….press ups hurts, as does anything overhead. I have access to lots of free weights, a bench, a swiss ball and kettlebells.  Any advice would be much appreciated.

Troubles, troubles, troubles… I’d work whatever you can and when warmed up and invested, do some silly-light dumbbell pressing movements from a flat bench or low-incline (5,10,15-pounds db, plates, even) to engage, sense, discover range-of-motion and stimulate the thirsty tissues. From today’s reactions and from tomorrow’s response, you can better determine the direction and force and pace you can handle.

Keep it simple unless complex is required. Stay away from the bench, a mean yet popular tool. I like one-arm lateral raises when one shoulder blinks. Stand or sit, stabilize yourself by hanging onto a rack with one arm and  seek a sidearm lateral groove that feels good – left, right, left right – 10 rep range, ever-so-light, controlled contractions… gotta love the hurting muscles.

Train sensibly… Rest wisely… Feed the body right… Have fun… Godspeed… Dave

I use the bench press for building my pecs, but it seems like my shoulder pain is getting worse by the day. Is this a form issue?

Beware:The most common and disabling shoulder problems come from excessive bench pressing and using too much weight in the exercise. The bench press is an over-rated exercise and is not the best for developing favorable pectoral muscles.

If you want a strong and well-shaped chest perform dumbbell presses on both the flat bench and the 45 degree incline, 4 sets x 6 to 10 reps of each exercise. Straight-arm cable crossover are the next exercise I suggest, 3-4 sets x 8-10 reps, at the end of your routine. Twice weekly.

Perform dips (lean forward to engage pecs) on triceps days. Occasionally do bench presses as an exercise for reps only when you get the urge throughout the month. You’re better off.

Remember to eat right and rest well, and the fact that this musclebuilding takes time, is a tough person’s sport and should be forever.

Go… Godspeed… Dave

Stuart McRobert’s book reads like this: “Exercises notorious for causing shoulder harm include the press behind neck, upright row, lateral raise (especially with the little finger above the thumb), pulldown and pullup behind the neck, fly for the pecs, and pec deck work. There are very few experienced trainees who have not invested a lot of application in one or more of these exercises. Some of these movements are also very harmful for the rotator cuff.”

Do you agree with the author on that? Since it has its place in your list, I’ve been doing lateral raises for over a year and not suffered any problem yet. Best regards from Istanbul.

Thanks for the good word from Istanbul.

Stuart is right… you can add bench press to the list while you’re at it… a number of the prohibited exercises can be done if the lifter is aware of their dangers and employs light weights, applies limited range of motion, practices isolated muscle contraction and understands the molecular structure of iron and the joys of musclebuilding madness.

You’re intelligent, disciplined and persevering; you have a library of the best information avilable and you have years invested in lifting and learning and growing. Now you can do as I do: carefully pick through the weeds with bare hands and grow your garden.

Focus and feel, exert and contract: push, pull and flex but don’t force; be tough, not mean; be strong, not stupid; be daring, not desperate.

Press on, never quit.. Dave    <<< Godspeed >>>

I am 62 years old and have been training for many years. I have had both shoulders and my left elbow operated on more than 20 years ago. I have to do more training on machines than free weights than I like but they are easier on my joints. I was wondering if you could suggest a good shoulder routine if you don’t mind.

Age and injuries and limitations persuade us to look at the exercises we can still do, give thanks, and apply them sensibly when we are able.

I like and can do incline dumbbell presses, Smith presses and one-arm lateral raises. From those three I blast my shoulders as best I can within my two workouts a week… each movement four or give sets of 6-12 reps. One workout dumbbells, one workout Smith and laterals on one or the other according to pleasure and ability.

I don’t press for chest, but do cable crossover and dips and the shoulder inclines to cover the area.

Light weights are now heavy… it’s the way of the beast… we must press on with focus, max-feeling and intensity, improvisation and screwball guts…

Go… Godspeed… Dave

I am a female, 49 years old [no spring chicken], and an amateur bodybuilder. I had rotator cuff surgery on a couple of months ago, and it entailed a plastic anchor pin being put at the top, stitches at the front, and a piece snipped from my biceps to take up the slack. Any educated guess on the soonest possible time I could potentially be ready for competition?

Sounds like a lot of delicate repair work. I remember when had my shoulder repaired — it was extensive and the long head of the biceps was involved — I didn’t want to put any resistance on the mess for fear of tearing it apart. Gradually I approached the restoration with slow and deliberate force. To this day — 15 years later — I’m still tentative when applying intensity to biceps training. Perhaps an involuntary reflex prevents me from bearing down with all my might or my mind is protecting me from bodily damage.

What’s this got to do with you? Not sure. In a few months you will have a clearer idea of your recovery, the extent to which you can train (your training input) and the extent of any limitations that cannot be overcome. The biceps part — the thin thread of a tendon that connects the thing and undergoes a heavy and direct load — make me nervous. From there on, as you make your adjustments, you might find strength- and balance- and muscle-recovery significant enough future competition.

On the other hand you might find that competition is no longer your thing and that it interferes with healthy muscular gains and training momentum and training joy.

After a few years of competition, I observed the disadvantages of training for shows: the two to three months in prep for contests — dieting and training to lose fat and gain cuts — cost muscle growth. They can be more of an interruption than a worthy motivator. I believe it was neither desirable, healthy or productive to get lean enough to please a judge.

My motivation became to be conditioned and strong and to appear as good as I could generally all year around, not just for show time. A little in ‘n outta shape here ‘n there through the seasons, but always pushing onward. I think that has been the best now and forever approach to this bodybuilding (I prefer musclebuilding) we love now and forever. I find the approach far more gratifying and fulfilling… and I am more thankful…

Have fun… God’s might… DD

I have pain whenever I put my arm overhead. Just strutting my chest out with shoulders back feels like a lot of pain. I feel the pain going from the rotator cuff area down into the inner front biceps. But when I did standing isolated triceps easy as I go and standing dumbbell curls inward. No pain for the moment and  it seems that I can do these two exercises and they may help.  This is a strange thing for me as I just turned 60 and have never been injured. So far it seems the triceps and biceps controlled motion is holding course  with no advance in pain. I’m thinking sit-down shrugs or flat bench with overhead extensions might of caused the problem.

Sounds and smells like a not-so-major tear in the shoulder. Such injuries can be a skunk. You can’t ignore it, so treat it nice, don’t abuse it and, with a little luck, it’ll go away.  Oh, and there’s also the doctor thing — worth a thought.

You are entering the The Nose Knows Zone of the 60s. You doing all you can: being attentive and cautious, scrutinizing the pain and its source, trying various movements with darling dumbbells that affect muscle action without muscle or joint or attachment antagonism. Too bad, but good.

Light weights to warm up, continued focus and curiosity and hope. I think the pain and limitation will pass in time, but I suspect the intuitive and investigative and lighter-weight, more warm-up training methodology will continue… and develop.

Dump the bar and put the shrugs in the locker. for awhile.

I do a similar alteration on the curls and tris. You’ll work you way around this and discover what to avoid as you press on. Or, maybe, you’ll explode…

Just kidding… that’s a bomber joke… Dave   <<< God’s Strength >>>

In doing shrugs with the trap bar, in addition to the traditional up and down shrug movement I would also “roll my shoulders” from back to front and front to back.  When doing this, I could feel that I was engaging my upper pecs and my lats.  I thought this was fine, until I read the following statement in a book “when doing shrugs with the trap bar, please don’t be a dweeb and roll your shoulders.” I do not mind being a dweeb, but am I risking injury by adding in the rolling movement?  I looked Brother Iron and did not see and guidance.

Yes. It seems like the thing to do, but under a load, rolling is harmful. I experienced damage and much pain and disability from the action, and a therapist explained why it’s unnatural to the rotation cuff.

I prefer dumbbells to a bar and now limit the action to up and down with just enough forward lowering at the bottom and intuitive arch or tug at the top to follow a natural groove, to be non-robotic.

Go happily into 2011… Godspeed

I have three questions. I’m having my shoulder surgery in two weeks: How long do you think before I can train again? Is there a best time to take Bomber Blend and creatine before starting a workout for it to work properly and what is the shelf-life of both? Finally, in the Good ‘Ol Days, what did you guys do with all the equipment on the beach when evening came or you finished working out?

If the shoulder wasn’t chewed on by a bear and if orthoscopy is the MO, you should be in action, attending its rehab with focus, patience and a new appreciation of the body and exercise and the iron within weeks.

I use Bomber Blend in AM and an hour (+/-) before and after the workout. I go through four scoops a day mixed with H2O. Creatine, I use a level tsp AM and PM to get the ingredient my system regularly.

Providing they are kept dry and at room temp Bomber Blend has a minimum two-year expiration date before any slow deterioration might take place (I’d use it if it was marked Civil War) and the creatine is safe till, say, 2050.

The beach scene was two years before my time… Equipment was already in the Dungeon at 4th and Colorado… but they probably took turns sleeping with it…

Be happy, be courageous, be blessed… Dave

I am 50 and have recently torn my rotator cuff tendon, supraspinatus completely torn in two. Can I come back stronger after surgery? I have been told it retracted so far back in my arm, he hopes to find it — amazing thing is my other muscles have taken over doing it’s job so far. Have you ever dealt with this?

Draper Recommendation: Get the surgery done ASAP or the chances of reattachment will diminish further and you might have to live without the functioning supra. This can lead to further damage as the region destabilizes.

I went through the same mess in the ’90s. Failed to have the initial injury repair and the supraspinatus shriveled up. Shoulder and biceps blew years later and required 6-hour open surgery for improvised repair of biceps and shoulder… never been the same… can’t reach overhead with any stability… muscle function gone…

Smith press is my friend, no steep incline dumbbell work and forget strength. You learn how to lift and seek muscle-overload differently. No one said life is fair, but it sure is precious.

We try, we fail, we try again and we succeed… lift, live, learn, grow, smile and be grateful… God’s strength… DD

In your vast experience, is there a secret app for the shoulder to really build a “case of steel” around my tendons so that my shoulder will exceed my current demands without risk of injury?

No, not really.

• Resist heavy weights and poor, compromised form
• Bench presses are very risky and the source of many shoulder problems — You can add press-behind-necks and upright rows to the list
• Rather, choose dumbbell presses in various degrees of incline — safer and better musclebuilders
• Eat right and rest a lot
• Warm up big time

You’d love the book Never Let Go by Dan John.

Lift, live, learn and grow… Godspeed… DD

I am 62 years old and have been trying to do standing overhead presses with an Olympic bar (very light weight) and it puts tremendous pressure on my middle back and makes it feel sprained. What would be the best alternative if I can’t do the standing overhead press?   I tried an inclined press (60 degrees) from a seat to support my back and there is no problem. Is that a suitable substitute for the overhead press?  Would doing overhead presses on a Smith Machine sitting on a bench be a better alternative than the inclined presses, or do you know of a better exercise to work the shoulders?

Time to rely on the support of a utility bench or incline. I don’t agree with the incline barbell press (shoulders run for cover), but I love all degrees of dumbbell inclines, including 75 degrees. I do steep incline front presses with on the Smith machine and do a nasty abbreviated version of a seated press behind necks when no one is looking. It hurts good.

I sure do enjoy standing one-arm dumbbell lateral raises while holding on to an upright for support. I start light for clean reps and work my way up the rack till I’m hefting some heavier weight (still in the kid’s department) in what could pass for one-arm cleans.

Feels good… lots of core… wide-range of grooves for tattered delts… be careful… I try… we press on… DD

I am just wondering if there is more muscle recruitment involved in barbell bench pressing, and if I will be missing something if I do dumbbell presses instead. Also, I think in the past when I have gotten shoulder pain, it was when I tried to do too low reps. Maybe keeping the reps between 8 and 12 would help eliminate that?

You’re in good hands with the dumbbells. There’s more and safer muscle recruitment with the dumbbells — you need to engage different muscles of the body to position the weights for pressing. You require more muscle to control the individual dumbbells, and with practice you are able to modify the tracking of the dumbbells to accommodate your specific needs. Not so with a bar.

Using higher reps is thoughtful. Build strength and muscle and familiarity with the mechanics over time. What’s the rush, right? Warming up is super important with all exercises.

You have plenty of time to investigate six reps and doubles and singles when you decide the time is right.

Don’t be afraid, but be safe.

Dave

Question: per your weekly article, how come incline benches are bad, but incline dumbbells aren’t?  Also, remember that Moses was 80 years old when he led the children of Israel out of Egypt..so you’re still a kid at 68.

The bar is fixed, a rigid handle causing stress in the hands, wrists, elbows and shoulders and associated muscle regions and their insertions as they try to respond to the natural tracking of the pressing action. The dumbbells allow the needed freedom of movement, eliminating the injury-producing strain and malfunction.

Plus, the individual resistance of the free-groove seeking dumbbells demands greater control and permits specific control, advancing the building and forming of healthy muscle and might. Huh?

Or, as they used to say in the old YMCA boiler room gyms, lift and shut up…

Gee, he’s getting cranky in his old age…

The desert life and manna soup and the nearness to camels is extraordinarily wholesome. And I understand the water springing from the rock was high in minerals and had life-enhancing qualities.

Godspeed… Dave

When you write, “The absolute best movements for shoulder health are overhead presses and horizontal rows,” is a horizontal row the same as a bent-over row? That is, is a horizontal row where you are bent at the waist, torso parallel to floor, with the proper curvature of course, and you’re pulling the dumbbell up from the floor?

That is a one-arm dumbbell row for a thick and powerful back and lat region… great exercise… but…

Horizontal row:

Lie on the floor, stiff-bodied and wide-arms length under a properly racked bar and pull yourself upward — chest to bar — and lower.

Exercise recruits the muscles that stabilize the scapula and thus contribute to a healthy shoulder structure and balance.for hefty injury-less-likely shoulder training. These are also called body rows.

Treat them as you would chins — sets, reps, focused pace and form…

Pressing on… Godspeed… Dave

I am having trouble clearing heavy dumbbells up for inclines and shoulder presses. I have nobody to spot me and the only other person at the gym when I go is the poor guy who has to clean up behind everybody and he is busy enough with that job. I do the old heave with the dumbbells on the quads but when they are in position I just about blew all my energy. What do you think of Hammer Strength equipment?

I’d say it was time to handle only those dumbbells that make you happy and don’t threaten you with injury, doubt or frustration. The Hammer shoulder press is a decent apparatus once you determine the seat adjustment and grip and groove and range of motion and rep rhythm.

For similar reasons I have turned to seated steep-incline front presses on the Smith Press. Give those a try as part of your exercise repertoire. We do what we can to get where we’re going… wherever that might be.

Go… Godspeed… Dave

I’m 58 years old and started weight lifting at age 14. I felt great for years enjoying exercise. I need to have shoulder replacements in both shoulders due to arthritis. In your years of experience, do you think bodybuilders wear their joints out? Could my case just be from genetics?

Sorry for your injuries and the tough road ahead. Learn, grow and endure and you’ll come out on top.

I suppose we’re susceptible to injury due to a list of variables outside the gym walls, which include genetics, structure, nutrition, accidents, lifestyle and job description. And in the gym even a sound and genetically strong body can be damaged by excessive training, overload, improper exercise execution, carelessness and foolishness.

A responsible and sensible and meticulous lifter has the best chance of surviving training injury-free. Hello! Such animals are as frequent as zebra-striped apes. Most ironheads I know are a good kind of crazy, pushing and pulling with all their might.

Sometimes I think the pain begins in the head and ends in the shoulder… or elbows or knees or…

Slow me down Lord.

I guess that would be Godspeed… Dave