Dave Draper’s Musclebuilding Q&A

I can’t develop my front delts.  No matter what combo of exercises, reps, whatever, they just won’t budge.  My side and rear delts are fine, but without the front my shoulders really cave in.  Any tips or suggestions?

Don’t know what can be done beyond any and all of the dumbbell pressing movements from flat to steep inclines and military (front) presses. Forward or front lateral-raises should help. I suspect it’s a structural challenge. Caps and rear deltoids are the usual culprits; front deltoids not so much.

Focus and isolate, high and low reps within a pyramid MO…

I like one-arm front dumbbell raises while holding on to a stable upright. Thoughtfully practiced, these single-arm movements can really blast the shoulders according to your direction… go light to heavy, with increasing thrust… four sets x 6 to 12 reps along with your mid- to steep-incline dumbbell pressing schedule twice a week.

We never quit… Dave

In a recent newsletter, you mention both shoulder and chest incline dumbbell press.  I’m not clear about what the difference might be in those two moves.

The steeper the incline, the greater the load on the shoulder regions. Conversely, the lower the incline the more the pecs are engaged.

As a young lifter, I quickly discovered barbell inclines were murder on my shoulder cage, and dumbbells were just right — powerful muscle engagement in cleaning the weights into position and more control in directing action toward power-groove and away from injury.

The bench press is a universally favorite exercise and hard to resist, but is famous for developing severe and lifelong shoulder problems. Works okay — injury to musclebuilding ratio — if it is executed as a thoughtful exercise and not a blood-spurting-from-the-eyes power movement. Trouble ahead, safety and longevity first.

Blast to last…  Bomber

I am trying to make sure I understand your shoulder rehab exercise. When you said you let your arm hang and you made small circles, I am assuming your arm hung straight down and you made circles very close to your hip bone. I am envisioning your hand stayed pretty close to your hip.

The movement is meant to warm-up and “lube” the area with oxygen-rich blood and prepare it for more direct action.

Assume a bent-over position, support yourself with the one arm and allow the arm of the injured shoulder to hang and rotate clockwise and counter clockwise with five pounds for ten rotations each direction.

Focus, feel… 1 -2 sets.

Care, rest, time… Godspeed… DD

I am now 46 and have been weight training since 15. At 42 I was hit with a nasty virus that still plaques me with muscle weakness and insomnia, greatly reducing my post-workout recovery. The past few years the left shoulder started hurting, MRI showed impingement w/ partial thickness tears, then medial epicondylitis. The Ortho doc didn’t push for surgery, but said if I want to resume weight training I would have to limit my overhead movements and give up squats or have arthroscpic surgery. As much as I want to work out, I hold back in fear of wearing out what is left of my aging body. Have you had or know any other bodybuilders who had arthroscopic surgery and resumed their normal workout routines? What do most bodybuilders do about nagging wear and tear injuries?

Forty-six is young from my viewpoint and the lifters I know have had the urge and incentive to push on though their 50s and on into their 60s and 70s. Orthoscopy for shoulders or knees are not uncommon among my buds at the gym and are a dreaded inconvenience, but they have worked wonders — diminishing pain, increasing mobility and capability. With your viral-infection limitations, who knows how repair might be affected… only God or the best and sincerest doctors.

You’re right. We face a critical dilemma as we get older: When is resistance training no longer healthy, and when are we wearing out our bodies as we press on rather than favoring the heaps of flesh?

Be wise and aware. I train on and, with an ear and eye on the signals and the nose of commonsense and instinct, modify wherever I need and must. ‘Wherever’ includes training intensity, duration and frequency — rest and recovery — weights used, sets and reps applied — groove of movement, range of motion and rep-speed and rep-pace and set-pace — cables or machine instead of free-weights — and, of course, nutrition and supplementation. It’s a work in progress…

We’re all different — chemistry, genes, structure, psychology, what makes us tick, what satisfies our needs, what our needs are. The repair procedures take careful consideration, balancing, evaluating, conferring… pros and cons.

You’re in the driver’s seat — floor it or hit the breaks, left at the corner, veer right or go straight ahead with the top down… engage seat belts… potholes ahead.

Go… Godspeed… Dave

Muscular shoulders are my weak points in bodybuilding. Here is an example of my shoulder workout: 4 sets of dumbbell presses or 4 sets of military presses with a barbell (15-8 reps each), side lateral raises supersetted with front lateral raises (15-8 reps).  I never feel sore the day after doing my shoulder workout. By not feeling the soreness, I feel like I didn’t work my shoulders hard enough. I was thinking about changing my shoulder routine by doing more shoulder presses such as 4 sets of barbell military press tri-setted with 4 sets of dumbbell presses and 4 sets of alternating presses and 3 sets each of side and front lateral raises. Do you think this is too much? I constantly hear people talking about overtraining since shoulders get worked on chest and back days.

Not a bad routine, but try this:

• Steep incline (70 degree) dumbbell press supersetted with lateral raises (4×10, 8, 6 reps  — go moderate to heavy weight on press and moderate on laterals — intense effort without risking injury)
• Military press supersetted with bentover lateral raise (4 x 6-8 reps)

Soreness comes with sensible intensity, full range-of-motion, tight contractions and heavy eccentrics. Work hard, don’t kill yourself, eat right always.

Your pressing idea is not a good routine: too much pressing. Remember, chest pressing is also front deltoid work. Train delts and chest twice a week with an accent on the shoulders. Heavy and frequent benching is murder of the shoulders. Think dumbbell flat and low-incline presses and cable crossovers.

Overtraining is a potential problem, and reading about it is a real problem. You’ll have to sort this out yourself as you press on — how to finesse your workouts according to your personal and particular needs. You’re in charge.

Be aware, be alert. Train, live, learn and grow.

Go… Godspeed… Dave

I am just starting to feel my 47-year-old body before and after workouts and am now struggling with shoulder pain after I do bench presses and some lateral raises. I am now about 2 weeks of not doing anything for my chest to hopefully stave off the pain in my shoulders, and the lateral raises have been stopped as well. When you say you do the raises one at a time, do you still use the same amount of weight on each side?

Drop the bench press for a while (or for good) and try dumbbell presses at various degrees of incline (the lower, the more pec — the higher, the more deltoid). Better muscle engagement, less joint aggravation.

One-arm laterals (sidearm) are done while holding a post for body stability and raising the weight in a groove (sideways to forward) that pleases you, starting with a light weight to warm up and assess the action. With each successive set, increase the weight or the reps per set to suit your preferences (4-5 sets in the 6-to-12 range). As you become familiar with the movement, you can go heavier and use more body thrust, even approaching a one-arm-dumbbell clean-like motion. The exercise can get serious.

Use the same weight on both sides unless you’re involved in an critical rehab program.

Be sensible always.

Godspeed… Dave

I am 60 and have shoulder pain. The doc said little cartilage left in the shoulders, probably from years of weight training and/or osteoarthritis.  I may be a future candidate for shoulder replacements.  In the interim is there any workout you can suggest that minimizes direct shoulder movements?  

Slim pickens. Get to know your pulley and cable apparatus for a wide range of extension and crossover movements, most of which you invent as you apply yourself to the resistance of various handle arrangements… tucks, pull-ins, one- and two-handed chest crossovers, overhead triceps extensions and any variations of those sample exercises as possible… from where you pull to where you extend, stretch, tug or raise.

At 67 and a vic of several surgeries, I like one-arm lateral raises to front and side, focused bar and dumbbell curls, various pull downs, seated lat rows, one-arm dumbbell rows, stiff-arm dumbbell pullover, any and all core, abdominal and leg work.
Some machines are friendly toward over-used shoulders… snoop around.
Use light weights, warm-up big time, be smooth and creative in exercise engagement, go moderate here and there, where and when you can, and rest lots.

Go sensibly and consistently… Godspeed… Dave

How effective are dumbbell pullovers for upper chest? What do you advise?

Not very. Each of us responds differently to the various exercises. Bent-arm pullover and press has possibilities, especially the point of transition from pullover to pressing, but it’s for young gorillas.

• Straight-arm pullovers accompany chest workouts very well, my favorite superset being DB incline and straight-arm pullover. Upper pec area is tough to engage unless one has the cool structural mechanics.
• Try steep DB inclines for upper pec and shoulder combination, variations of dips on the dip machine , cable crossovers (one-arm or two-arm) positioning yourself for upper chest engagement — lean forward and dig in with slightly bent arms and a high groove.
• Try grasping a DB with both hands and raising it from the waist forward and up with straight-out arms to a position slightly above parallel, like a forward lateral. Lower sorta slowly, focusing on entire pec region. The crushing effect loads the chest. Start light and go up the rack toward heavy. (4,5 sets X 10, 8, 6 rep range)
•  I don’t like Oly bar pressing, flat or incline. Shoulders beware!

We press on… we never quit… Godspeed… DD

With painful shoulders, do you think I am really better off just letting the bench press alone?

The bench is okay as a thoughtful exercise. Most of us get caught up in seeking the maximum weight or the last rep. It is then the lifter is in danger; form goes south and shoulders go north.

Bring the dumbbells in after benching for a few sets of closing reps. At least as important: Offset your pushing with plenty of pulling. I like two to one, pulling over pushing. Old-school points toward overhead pressing, and it seems the really old-school guys had a lot fewer shoulder problems than we do.

Listen and learn; pain speaks the truth loudly and clearly…

Press on… Dave

I have a question regarding shoulder injuries— I have had bad shoulders since I was a teenager due to sports injuries and not warming up properly. I have taken a long hiatus from weight training to really delve into yoga. I have recently found that pushup motions in yoga and downward dog even bothers my shoulders. I am considering returning to weight training, to hopefully strengthen the injured shoulders, or in the hope of stabilizing them by making the muscles around them stronger. Do you think this is even possible?

There’s a lot of good to be said about yoga, but I know very little… like nothing. About weight training I have a clue.

Trips to the gym could be productive and fun, performing light-to-moderate weight for well-formed reps can build muscles to support the damaged area. Other associated upper-body movements can help strengthen and stabilize the region as well. A sensible, well-rounded weight routine with agreeable input can be joyful and restorative.

No more push-ups for me, either. Dips on a machine are a big benefit; bench pressing’s not good, but I do like dumbbells on flat and incline.

I like one-arm dumbbell laterals ever-so-thoughtfully executed to approach and effectively affect the injured area.

Light benches are okay for non-aggressive exercise only.

Warming up, starting light and proceeding up the rack or plate by plate works wonders.

Be patient, be attentive, take your time and rejoice.

DD

I have a big discrepancy in shoulder strength. My question to you is to try to strengthen the weaker shoulder most effectively, do you suggest using dumbbells of different weights [one lighter, one heavier] when doing shoulder presses, using dumbbells of the same weight but just continuing on to failure with the strong side after the weak shoulder has failed, or doing more sets with the weak shoulder than the strong one?

Not an uncommon problem. Our bodies are often out of whack from habits or injuries from years ago. A kid might be shy and minimize his or her stature by slouching or rounding their shoulders. He or she grows up with shortened muscle structure here and lengthened muscle there. A minor injury, badly sprained ankle or such, causes the body to compensate and one develops muscle imbalances. Sit in front of a computer for lengths of time, and, oops, we’ve got a pretzel. Most everyone is a victim.

Treatments of Rolfing and/or Feldenkrais (wonderful stuff) can restore or awaken neural pathways that have lost their way and bring health back to the system… just a thought.

I don’t use different weights or rep patterns to overcome a common or typical muscle imbalance. I have the stronger-left-shoulder, weaker-right-shoulder scenario. I treat both the good and its lagging partner as one. I choose the lighter weight and proceed to train with focus and form. If the matter is severe — arm in cast — I engage in emergency tactics. That’s another story.

If you have a significantly injured left or right region — biceps, knee, shoulder strain or soreness– then the use of dumbbells is wise. The injured area requires its own therapy, with attention to groove, range of motion, hand-position and weight, usually guided by pain and common sense.

That’s all… Go… Godspeed… Dave

I’m a 68-year-old man. I don’t feel I’m lifting too much weight, but after workouts the left side of my left elbow hurts and both shoulders hurt. Weights range in poundage from 30 pounds to 40 pounds. I do 15-10-5 reps. Should I back these off or lower my weights?

Oh, boy. The stinkers. Elbows and shoulders and past 25; to back off or not back off.

I don’t know, and I say this with a whiny sigh. The origins of injury and pain are often varied and uncertain and the ultimate resolutions are no less a mystery. I’m going to the gym in an hour and face similar circumstances and wonder which way I’ll go to outwit my adversary.

Warming up is important. I’ll have my right elbow wrap in action, on and off as needed. You might consider a similar assistance, a smaller version of a knee wrap, to handle the load, protect the joint, reduce the pain and enable more exertion — sets and reps or weight handled.

The shoulder limitation demands more creativity. The range of exercises from presses to lateral raises need to be investigated and modified and improvised. The answer is found by trial and (near) error. Try both avenues — alter the reps or alter the weight — for a week and make assessments during and after (days following) the workout.

Focus, feel, find, fix, finished… fun. That’s what I’d do.

There are always your over-the-counter anti-inflammation meds: Tylenol, Advil, Aleve.

Carry on the good fight… we press on… foreword march… never quit… never…

Godspeed….DD

My problem is the bench press. I am starting to have shoulder pain. I read on the website that I should use dumbbells. What I am wondering is should I do flat bench or inclines? The heaviest dumbbells I have are 50s.

The bench press is notorious for shoulder injury. For on thing, we cannot control ourselves from going heavy, too heavy, and compromising a healthy groove to complete a damaging set or rep.

Mix it up a bit, the various degrees of incline being most beneficial - more delt and upper pec engagement and development. Inclines are more strenuous and, thus, require less weight to be effective. Flys and forward-leaning dips are dependable additions.

You might try dumbbell presses supersetted with straight-arm pullovers for a fun and worthy upper-body blast.

Remember: the more we focus on muscle engagement and the less we hurry, the more we are able to achieve from the less-than-heavy weights.

Thanks for the good word and for supporting our efforts… Godspeed… Dave

With at least three tears in my left rotator cuff, my left shoulder is not growing as well as my right. I assume it’s because of the tendon tears, but is there anything I can do to get it to grow? Or would that only happen after repair surgery?

Only the possessor of the injury can direct the methods and exercises for its repair. Shoulders are a mystery to every lifter. No short answer.

Many routes to choose — x-ray, MRI to scope out eventual need for ortho or open surgery, work around injury and do your best, trigger point or Feldenkrais therapy, time for healing, accept impairments and limitations that overcome athletes as they engage and age.

Do your best, then double it…

Godspeed… Dave

I have pain in my right shoulder when I do side laterals, but not when I do them on a seated lat raise machine where your elbows press against pads. I notice that when I do lateral raises my right trap contracts very early as I raise my arm and pulls my shoulder joint backwards. My left trap stays put and only contracts when my arm passes above parallel to the floor. Never any pain on the left side unlike the right, yet on the seated lat machine no pain on either side. 53 yrs old and lots of abuse on the shoulder joints over the years. What is your opinion of the seated lat raise machine and why no pain?

Could be a tear in a ligament that straps the rotator in place. My shoulder/trap action is similar and I have a separated supraspinatus (along the ridge of trap muscle and its ligament straps over the shoulder cuff for stability and movement). I didn’t catch mine in time and it retreated to mid-back and deteriorated. Goodbye nearly 15 years ago; open operation by a top guy didn’t fix it. Big training compromise; pressing is the pits, but I manage to stimulate, burn and pump for muscle retention.

I do one-arm laterals while holding on to a rack with the free hand and leaning outward for position advantage - lateral can be done from the front of body or from behind. Two-hand laterals are funky — left works, right doesn’t.

I don’t like the machine you refer to, hurts the forearms.

Might be worth considering trigger point therapy also. Sometimes the muscle refuses to move over an area with inflammation, aka adhesion.

Another thing, if not a tear, it might be muscle lost memory of action, a neural transmission problem, and you need application of Feldenkrais procedures — reminds muscle of its pattern and initiates re-firing — not voodoo.

I’m not the alternative medicine type, but this stuff works where needed.

Gotta go… DD

I’ve been advised to retract and depress shoulder blades when flat benching. Should I look to do same for barbell inclines, declines and also dumbbell benching? Have also been told to keep upper arms at 45 degrees to torso when benching. Should I look to do same for all chest moves as described above?

Good idea… more complete muscle involvement— upper back, traps and the less-recruited supportive muscles.

Any bench pressing has drawbacks. It’s tough on the shoulder cage and elbows. Heavy benching shortens the musclebuilder’s otherwise healthy and painfree training life span.

Dumbbells are better for structural health and muscle growth.

Declines are a waste. Lower pecs build easily and get hangy if you don’t watch out.

Don’t sacrifice the basic concept of pressing at the cost of complete contraction. I don’t see this completeness happening in bar inclines and dumbbell inclines. Those particular muscles are less engaged in incline positions.

Regarding the pressing positions: You be the judge according to your structural needs. Not all wise advice fits everyone’s needs.

Go… Draper

I have sore shoulders from bench pressing. Should I use cables instead? I really miss pressing.

Use dumbbells instead and save the shoulders. Dumbbells are great muscle mass and might builders.

Use various degrees of incline. Safer, smarter, better.

Try a two- or three-inch thick bar for bench pressing — it changes groove (very cool), whil it limits the weight you can use.

Don’t go heavy on the bench anymore or pay the big price — shoulder suicide.

Train smart, eat right, smile and live long… Godspeed… Dave

I had an A/C shoulder separation injury following a fall that was pinned, had the pin removed, and months of physiotherapy before given the all clear last August. Been advised by a personal trainer to avoid dips and possibly close-grip benches. What safe moves can I do to form a good triceps workout?  I’ve lost a lot of confidence here.

It’s been many months since the doc’s okay; you should be well on the mend.

Tough to advise on joint repair. Only the bearer of the injury can accurately choose the exercises, direct their grooves and the recovery process — commonsense, pain awareness, focus, warming up, abbreviated movements, light weights, slow and thoughtful reps, trial and error.

You might stick to various dumbbell presses to secure shoulders and work tris.

Try pulley pushdowns — overhead and forward-facing — with safe positioning of the cable and range of motion and medium resistance.

Lying extensions with a barbell and one-hand overhead extensions with a dumbbell are risk-worthy possibilities. Kick-backs… ugh.

Overall training will bring you back to full power and speed in time. Injury and recovery have a weird way of complementing the musclebuilder.

Confidence will grow with exercise-injury understanding and muscle strength and shoulder health.

Go… Godspeed

I am 21 years old and have been training since 2003. I have problem with my deltoids; when training, I can’t focus on them. I want to increase my shoulder size.

Lucky you. You’re young. It often takes years to accomplish the focus you are seeking. Try doing either presses or lateral raises for high repetitions — sets of 15 reps — to achieve maximum deltoid burn and pump. The pain will get your attention and you’ll discover the deltoids’ exact location.

My favorite approach to building big, strong and muscular shoulders is supersetting presses (front press, behind-the-neck press, steep-dumbbell-incline press) with lateral raises (side-arm or bent-over), performing 3 to 4 supersets of 6 to 8 or 10 reps.

Choose one or two combinations and practice them twice a week.

Do not hurry during your workouts. Think muscle and might.

Carry on with courage and intensity… Godspeed… Dave

Any ideas for adding extra weight on my bench press? I am not aspiring to be a powerlifter, I just want to take it up a notch from my current 185 x 10, to 225 x 8. I just can’t seem to get past 205 x 3. Help. Signed 49 years old and enjoying life.

My best advice is to not seek heavy weight on the bench press and instead use it as a muscle building exercise only.

Going heavy in the bench is notorious for causing frustration and shoulder damage, killers to long term training joy. Go to dumbbells on flat and various degrees of incline for safer, smarter, happier and more effective shoulder and pec development.

Employ the bench press to satisfy our almost instinctive need to perform the old standard, but take it to 80- and 90-percent effort (in either weight or repetitions) without losing form.

Change grip occasionally for varied muscle engagement, development and entertainment. Try the Apollon axle thick bar for a real treat and treatment.

When in doubt, call upon the IOL forum for daring input.

Go… Dave